posted
I have a music question that I thought Rocky might know (given his choral background) but if anyone else knows what I'm talking about, feel free to chime in.
I'm probably using the wrong terminology here, but, basically, is there a word to describe a singing style where the artist sings in such a way that their melody doesn't match the rhythm of the music (and in some cases seems to run counter to it) but the overall effect is still pleasing?
A few songs that I can think of that fit what I'm talking about would be:
I'm not even sure there is a single word to describe what I'm talking about... but there is some sort of element that seems to give those songs an almost "hymnal" quality.
Am I batty... or is this a specific type of singing technique?
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posted
I honestly don't know of any name for it. I'm not sure there is one, but I could be wrong.
Of course, choral singing is very different from this and that's the only kind I really know anything about.
I was thinking about this more while I was walking the dog. There are many modern choral pieces where the instrumental accompaniment has little or nothing to do with the choral parts, but that's an issue of composition and arrangement rather than vocal technique. That may be the case here as well.
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From: The Pyngwyn Colonies of Planet Hyustyn | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I thought of another song that fits what I'm talking about, "To Sir, With Love" by Lulu.
The wiki article for that song says it makes use of something called, melisma, which is stretching a syllable through multiple notes (which, interestingly, was apparently used to induce trance during religious ceremonies).
While all of those songs do use that, I don't think not entirely what I'm talking about. It's that, I think, plus the fact that the verses themselves are what - I just found out - are called "hypercatalectic", or having too many syllables for the meter of the song.
So basically... too many syllables in a line and too many notes per syllable. You're probably right, there's probably not a single word that covers that... but there should be, darn it.
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posted
I'm very familiar with melisma. It's used in Gregorian chant a lot. When multiple syllables are squished into a single note, it's ellision (such as "heav'n" for "heaven").
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From: The Pyngwyn Colonies of Planet Hyustyn | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eryk Davis Ester
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posted
My first thought reading this was that you were talking about some sort of polyrhythm, but I don't think the examples quite fit that.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Ex, I know exactly what you're talking about, and I have a master's degree in music, but heck if I can think of a precise term for it. Polyrhythmic--or polymetric--is getting close, but it's not exactly right.
What you're referring to is mostly an extended rhythmic or metrical difference between the melody line and the accompaniment. While the accompaniment is marking a steady beat, measure to measure, the melody has seemingly broken free and gone its own way, seemingly independent of the beats for several measures. Another more structured method is to juxtapose two different meters--for example, the voice sings 6 beats while the accompaniment plays 4 beats, both simultaneously and within the same length of time.
Those long, free, seemingly arhythmic but actually micro-rhythmic melodic lines are prominent for both singers and instrumentalists in African-rooted musical styles like America's jazz and the music that's coming straight from Africa now. Both of those streams have influenced both popular music and 20th-century and 21st-century "classical" music. And Willie Nelson is a master at stretching and bending the rhythms and meter of a melodic line.
Much of non-Western music grew/grows from an aural/oral tradition, unlike the centuries of written musical notation that's marked European and American music. Written notation has its limitations, especially when it comes to rhythm. A vocal line like "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" can be written in precise notation, but it can be challenging to read even for a trained musician. (And often the composer will note that it's to be performed "in a jazz style," acknowledging that the notation doesn't do it justice.) To pull it off, the singer/player has to have a great sense of the underlying rhythmic structure.
I've rambled on about stuff you probably already know, and still haven't answered the question, but it just got me thinking....
Maybe there's a word for it--other than "jazz" or "blues"--but if not, perhaps it's because this style didn't rise out of the Western musical tradition that created most of our musical terms.
posted
Wow, that's awesome, LT; I didn't know you had that background (though, now that you write that, I remember you commiserating a couple months back when I posted about having sore wrists while trying to learn Pachelbel's Canon). Now that I know, I totally know who I'll be pestering with future musical questions.
I'm a total latecomer to learning about music. About two years ago, a friend of mine was moving to a smaller place and offered up her antique piano for free to the first person to reply on Facebook. I was all over that, even though 36 was way late in the game to decide to learn something so complex like that, that I've never had the least exposure to. That being said... I have loved it ever since.
Back to the original question, thanks to Rocky, Eryk, and LT for the addition insight. LT's sentence, "While the accompaniment is marking a steady beat, measure to measure, the melody has seemingly broken free and gone its own way" is a really nice way to put what I was talking about. It's that break from the expected form that really engages me. To put it in completely different terms... sure, the 36-24-36 girl with the airbrushed face on the magazine cover is all right, but the girl with the slight overbite, or the eyes set a bit too far apart, or the patch of freckles on her cheeks, is the one who will turn my head time and again.
Out of curiousity, LT... you mention Willie Nelson as someone who plays with the meter of a melody. Are there any songs you'd recommend as good examples? I noticed that all the examples I was talking about were all female singers and I'd like to hear something similar in a male voice, as well (although, for all practical purposes, Nico probably sings in a vocal register lower than a lot of male singers, anyway).
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posted
Hey Ex, you're welcome to send music questions any time! Piano is my major instrument, and I'm delighted to know you've started it without letting perceptions about age deter you. Once one gets some basic skills down it can be a cool and fun instrument to explore all kinds of music.
For some Willie Nelson songs, try "Stardust" or "Georgia on My Mind" or "Crazy" or "Help Me Make It Through the Night."
The standards of the American songbook, like some of those, are full of melodies ready to be unchained. You've probably heard other crooners who like to play with tunes in the way we're talking about.
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From: Groga | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Thanks, LT! I knew about your musical background and I had thought about directing this question to you, but forgot about it any time I was around this thread.
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From: The Pyngwyn Colonies of Planet Hyustyn | Registered: Aug 2005
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