His Adam Strange mini-series from 2004 was, in my opinion, everything that the Legion has been at its finest.
And as for Diggle being somewhere around 35-40 years of age, it's worth remembering that DnA were no spring chickens when they took over the Legion.
When I imagine Diggle doing Legion, I imagine him taking it in a 5YL direction, only it would be 5YL done right! No convolutions, no glacial pacing, no character assassinations, and no idiotic and self-indulgent plot twists!
No offense intended to Levitz fans, but I believe that this retro incarnation of the Legion is a nostalgia trip bringing it closer and closer to outright irrelevance. And bringing Giffen in to co-write is not the answer, in my opinion. Giffen had his chance, and depending on who you ask, he either blew it disastrously or crafted an unjustly villified masterpiece. Obviously, I'm of the former belief. But even so, let's face facts -- 5YL did not sell well, and that's all that matters to the publisher in the end. I am firmly convinced that Diggle could produce a Legion not unlike early DnA Legion -- tough and state-of-the-art, yet also commercially viable.
Please excuse the rant, but this was something that had been building up in me for a long time. People are welcome to disagree, and are encouraged to contribute their own suggestions as to who should write the Legion after Levitz leaves.
posted
Irrelevant? Relevant? In what way? I can't think of a single comic book I read that is relevant. Relevant as in "interesting," or relevant as in,... well, I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean?
note to self: next time you try three times to delete the apostrophe, see if it's dirt on the screen.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Irrelevant in that I believe there is nothing fresh or state-of-the-art about its current incarnation, and that it's coasting on a wave of nostalgia for the way it was 30 years ago. I think unless it gets a treatment similar to what DnA did, and fast, it might even get cancelled.
cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
I suspect that the problems with the current run of the Legion are as much about Editorial demands and the restrictions they impose as they are about Levitz as a writer.
I could be wrong, but if I'm right, it wouldn't actually matter who took over the writing chores. I don't believe that even "big name" writers produce their best work without an editor strong enough to bring out their strengths and tone down their weaknesses. However, I also don't believe that Editorial should take the reins from a writer and constantly push them to write what the Editorial decrees will move product, at the expense of the writer's belief in what would produce a good story.
It hasn't been remarked on much here that I recall, but I think a major component of Levitz' success last time out was Karen Berger. I think they had a rapport and a good give-and-take that simply hasn't been there this time out. Even leaving aside some of the major or minor continuity WTF?!s that other readers have brought up. Berger's touch was not something I necessarily took notice of back in the day, but I can very much see the difference in the finished product now that she's long gone.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Cleome, I totally agree about Karen Berger. The difference between Legion with her and Legion without her is staggering. Given Levitz's sexist comments a couple years ago, I'd even suspect that the strong female characters in Legion were more her doing, and maybe Jenette Kahn's doing, too, than Levitz's.
For a moment, I even considered suggesting that Berger return to editing the Legion, given that she's already editing one DCnU book, Dial H, but then I thought, her time, like Levitz and Giffen's has passed. It's time for a fresh set of eyes all around.
There's a really good editor named Andy Schmidt who masterminded the first Annihilation event from Marvel a few years ago, and also edited the first 24 issues of X-Factor. Last I heard, he was working for IDW, but that might not be the case anymore. I think he'd be perfect for Legion.
I think Cleome is dead right too though. With DC editorial as it is now, any writer is destined to fail or at best produce a hamstrung, irrelevant (as Fanfie define it) product. Berger was and still is a master editor. If only Didio and Johns could be fired and she could run the whole damn company.
I'd love to see Warren Ellis have a go with no restraint and a masterful, exciting artist. Like Steve McNiven.
I'd really like to see a young new creative genius like Brandon Graham bring his unconventional sensibilities to the series. And the less he cares about how people see "how the Legion is supposed to be" the better. Same with Joe Keatage, Kurtis Wiebe or even Nick Spencer.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Of the possible names--would absolutely love to see Peter David's spin on the Legion! And given his fondness for DC;s Silver Age the impossible name would be Grant Morrison...
-------------------- "I am the LEGION--you colossal Jerk!"--Garth Ranzz LEGION #63
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Cobie, I think the problem with Ellis is that he loses interest quickly. It even happened on Planetary to some extent. He'd do a killer spin-off mini-series, though.
Korbal, I'd love it if Peter David did the Legion, too, but there seems to be a lot of bad blood between him and DC.
posted
Good point on Ellis. Though I'd take one utterly terrific 6 issue story to cleanse the pallet between creative teams and reinstall some "new frontier-ness".
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I have to agree that the editorial direction may be more important than who the actual writer is. Perhaps the more interesting question what approach should be taken with the Legion next. I'd like to see a version that embraces the idea of it having a long, complicated history, and that can draw upon that history and take it in wild and crazy new ways.
That said, I can only think that Brian Clevinger writing the Legion would be nothing short of awesome.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
I get the impression that editorial mandates have indeed ravaged (ha, ravaged, get it?) Legion Lost, and contributed mightily to it's failure to thrive, but, since the Sodam Yat / Earth Man / Legion Green Lantern thing got wrapped up and buried in the memory vault, I don't feel like editorial mandates have really had anything to do with Paul's direction on the Legion of Super-Heroes title itself.
The Green Lantern ring is gone, along with the green spunk monster that was trying to pawn it off on folk. Earth Man is dead, and most of his teammates gave a hearty shrug and moved on. Mon-El remains on the team, and Shady is ever-so-cautiously being re-introduced in a more positive light, to get the stink of that last run off of her (even if some of that is happening with her off-panel, such as Invisible Jacques crediting her as his combat instructor, whose training saved his life in the recent fight with the folk working to revive Tharok, giving her some props while she's safely off-stage, to sort of set her up for a better reception when she's back on screen).
For the most part, I'd lay any blame on issues with the current run on Paul himself, and not editorial mandates (such as the inane crossover madness over at Marvel, which ends up bedeviling even writers who try to stay the hell out of it, like Peter David).
That being said, I'm seeing a lot of less issues with the writing than I was in the last couple years. Yes, 'first meeting with the Fatal Five' is irksome, but it's a design choice, and I am more willing to accept a design choice than irritating mistakes like Garth's parents being alive and Imra being and orphan and Timber Wolf having Wolverine's powers instead of his own.
I've been a loud critic of Paul's writing over the last couple years, but I think he's finally starting to regain his footing on this title, which has humbled more than it's fair share of writers who thought they could make it work.
As for replacements, I'm a big fan of Kurt Busiek, and his love of continuity porn, combined with a property with so many decades of rich, rich material to mine. (Quite a few other writers whose works I love tend to be really, really awesome at writing characters of their own design and creation, and, with characters with their own rich history, not so much...)
Add in an artist capable of drawing clean lines, attractive people and dynamic action (as well as cool futuristic backgrounds!) like Phil Jiminez or Ron Lim, suitable for a bright four-color future, and not someone with a gritty style better suited to Batman or the Punisher.
And, I've noticed as I get older, that a good colorist makes a huge difference. Whoever colored for Phil Jiminez in that Adventure run recently made the colors *pop* off of the page, and I would much prefer that to the blah colors of the last few issues of Legion Lost.
(Me not bothering to look up either of those colorists, I'll probably be shocked to find out they're the same person or something...)
[ November 25, 2012, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Set ]
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Heh, I was thinking of making a similar thread to this, actually--sort-of a, "Who would you want to see on the LSH?" kinda thing.
On Levitz, I'm sorry, but I think the kinda "meh" nature of the book since at least Flashpoint has nothing to do with editorial and more that Levitz has just plain ran out of interesting ideas for the book and is going through the motions that really only appeals to fans. I mean, if I was first introduced to Legion from his last #1 and not through Johns' Superman & The Legion story, I probably would have never given a crap about them.
As for other talent--Ellis is a GREAT idea. I could sort-of see them do what he did with Iron Man--where he did a big arc and was given free-reign to take the character and his world wherever he wanted, just as long as it made the character more current and interesting.
So here's some ideas--to make it a little more interesting/challenging, I decided to use creators who are already working at DC right now, and who's never written them before:
Scott Snyder -- he's DC's newest golden boy, who's appearance on the book is guaranteed instant interest in the Legion again. While he's so far not shown himself to be the most subtle of writers, he has shown to be a writer who tries to get at the heart of a character/world and fiddle with it to see what happens which, again, I think the Legion could definitely use.
Justin Jordan -- Between his brilliant and ironically gutsy The Strange Talent of Luther Stode and his small sampling of DC work in Team 7, he's shown he can be very ballsy and creative and write a team book where every character has their own unique voice and character.
Brian Azzarello -- His recent work in Wonder Woman's shown he can revamp a book without taking away the heart of it and what made it work, and his recent Spaceman shows he can do some interesting sci-fi.
John Layman -- His work on Chew shows he can create wildly creative and powerful work, and his Detective run has been deceptively simple--showing "classic" rogue confrontations but often in new and interesting ways.
Michael Green / Mike Johnson -- Their Supergirl run has been consistently solid, with great characterization and some awesome sci-fi ideas.
I would also consider Joe Keatinge, but he hasn't written anything for DC YET, so not part of the parameters I set up.
And just for funsies, here's some artists I thought of:
Jim Lee -- He has said that there are two DC works he is killing to draw for, and that's Wonder Woman and Legion. Plus, like with Snyder, Legion's bound to get on the top-ten again just on his name alone.
Travel Foreman -- He's shown to be great at doing creative designs and dynamic pages, and I think his design of the future would be exciting, if his depiction of Krypton in Action #13's any indication.
Chris Burnham -- Brilliant storytelling, and his art has that great mix of realism and cartooning that I think works well with superhero comics.
Sami Basri -- His art is just beautiful, and I'm not just talking about his women, and his work on Voodoo's shown that he could do an awesome sci-fi book. Plus the fact that DC didn't put him on another book after Voodoo was cancelled is just criminal to me.
I would also be curious to see what Greg Capullo, Ivan Reis, Cliff Chiang, Nicola Scott, Yanick Paquette, and Kenneth Rocafort would do with the Legion, but frankly, I like 'em where they are right now too much to suggest them moving.
From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2012
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posted
Well DC could have got Paul Levitz an editor that was trained by the original Legion editor Mort Weisinger, an editor and writer just like Paul who reached the top spot at one of the two big comic book companies and then lost that top spot, they could even rotate on writing and editing each others stories, play off one another with the Legionnaires caught in the middle.
Could Paul Levitz and Jim Shooter get along as equals and become the new Siegel and Hamilton, the possibilities in my mind for stories are staggering?
But alas the chances of this happening are slim to none!
[ November 26, 2012, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Lone Wolf Legionnaire ]
-------------------- I tried to rip their soul out.I tried to make them forget Superman. But they won't.
From: Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Tough question. While I am very much looking forward to seeing if Giffen can rekindle the spark Levitz had when they were working together, I agree that the time has come for a fresh persepctive all around.
I really have no clue on someone to suggest. I'm almost to the point where I'd like to see a complete and total unknown take a whirl.
But if pressed for a "name" writer... Grant Morrison could either be spectacularly awesome or a spectacular letdown. Whatever happened, I've no doubt his would be a run to watch.
My enjoyment of DC titles currently is probably at its lowest point ever, but writers who are on books I currently do quite like at DC are Peter Milligan (Stormwatch) and Geoff Johns (Aquaman, JLoA).
I'm pretty sure both of them could do some fun things. Johns has plenty of detractors here, but I'm not really one of them. I loved the Superman/LSH arc in ACTION. It's not his fault it was so popular, we ended up saddled with Earth Man on the team. He had some fun backups in ADVENTURE while the LSH title was in limbo.
In fact, I won't be surprised if, when this run of LSH heads for oblivion, as- let's face it- has been the trend ever since the New 52 sales bump went quickly away, one of 2 things happen:
The LSH is cancelled and not seen again for quite some time, or...
the book is given to Johns, who has had majorly successful runs on formerly looked-down on properties like JSA, Hawkman and Aquaman.
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