posted
So we're down to just a couple of days before the crossover book comes out. Is it just one issue?
Any new predictions now that we've had the first part of the story?
I guess that if we're going to get a hundred versions of the 5 then maybe we'll get a hundred versions of the Legion. Considering that we've actually seen an evil Legion in all that alternate reality stuff I'm wondering if we'll see a heroic Fatal Five somewhere in the mix. That would be different.
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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Faraway Lad
Senator of the UP. Permanent Ambassador to the Court of Saint James
posted
It would bee fun to see the legions reaction to a "heroic" fatal five.
I'm blanking at the moment but wasn't there a story a long time back which showed the FF effectively hiding out on a planet and trying to help the technologically backward people. They were thwarted by the arrival of the legion and decided that if the law was not going to leave them alone they would go back to their old ways.
-------------------- Faithfull
From: Newcastle upon Tyne England | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Yeah, that was during Joe Staton's run, the only time I've ever dropped the Legion from my regular reading list. I eventually bought it out of the "quarter box" and I've flipped through it but I don't think I've ever actually read it.
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I suspect that the 'axe cutting through time and space' thing may be inspired by Philip Pullman's 'the Subtle Knife' in which the eponymous blade has the power to cut through the ether to make a gateway between two parallell earths.
If I remember rightly. It's been a while. Anyway, that's the first thing I thought of when I read of this particular plot device. So it isn't completely unprecedented in fiction.
From what I have read, this does sound a bit disappointing so far. I'll reserve judgement until I've read it though, I guess.
**cry they're killing my legion! My precious legion!!! cry***etc.
-------------------- Fire in the disco! Fire in the Taco Bell! Fire in the disco! Fire in the gates of hell!!
From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by minesurfer: I'm fairly well convinced that the writers of Teen Titans haven't read too many Legion books. The noted flight rings with built in transuits comes to mind. The Persuader's Axe getting the new power to cut through alternate realities... and finally, (and I know it's the Titan's book, but) if The Legion can't handle the problem, I'm not sure that 6 or so Titans are going to stem the tide of the Fatal 500.
To address your points in order:
1. Why assume that Geoff Johns made these decisions on his own? You don't think he would ask someone if the flight rings activated transuits? Or what the Persuader's Ax can and can't do? And if he did decide on these matters on his, you're saying that Eddie Berganza is such a sloppy editor that he'd just let them stay in the issue without checking with Steven Wacker or Mark Waid first? Can someone please reference an issue that shows conclusively this IS an error? Knowing Johns, I can guarantee you that he asked someone about flight rings and the Persuader's atomic ax. A Teen Titans issue that leads into the Titans/Legion Special that leads into the Legion re-boot isn't going to be directed by Johns alone. Although he's not listed in the credits, Mark Waid has an influence in TT #16.
2. Having the Persuader's ax cut through "parallel realities" does seem contrived, but who knows? Like someone else pointed out in the other thread, that atomic ax has been used to break so many physical laws, why can't it be used to "cut into parallel realities"? Or, I'll put it this way, if you're complaining that the ax can do this, you should also be complaining that the ax can do all the other crazy things the past writers and editors have made it do.
3. Wildfire DOES point out that the addition of 7 Teen Titans isn't going to help them considerably.
1. As I think back about the issue, I'm not even sure that transuits were mentioned. I think it's presented that the Flight Rings will protect them in space, and that us being knowledgeable Legion fans, we assumed their was some connection between the rings and unmentioned transuits. If I'm remembering this correctly then it's a huge, unexplained upgrade for the flight rings. Whether Johns or editors or the readers are responsible for this or not, it still lends itself to my argument that the writers are not too familiar with how the Legion works.
2. The axe cutting through alternate realities is another huge, unexplained upgrade. Which lends itself to many questions... Is there an Atomic Axe for each reality? Does each axe cut through the fabric of realities? How does each Persuader control which fabric of reality he cuts? If the axe cuts through realities does that mean it exists in each reality and there's really only one? If this is the case does that mean each Persuader is spatially in the same place in each reality, so as to be holding onto the axe? How do people and objects in one dimension keep from being cut by all the atomic axes of other dimensions?
These are questions that the previous writers have not had to deal with when they broke the physical laws with their axes. But somehow they seem relevant here. I also remember the axe bouncing off of Brainiac 5's force field early in the reboot, it still knocked him out, but it has been shown that the Axe can not cut everything.
3. I knew I liked Wildfire for a reason.
The bottom line is the writing shows a little bit of unfamiliarity with The Legion. I think both the editors and writers have a hand in that. Given that the story isn't complete yet, I'm willing to wait and see if they explain some of these things. I just hope they don't treat the Legion as second tier thingies until December rolls around.
quote:Originally posted by minesurfer: The bottom line is the writing shows a little bit of unfamiliarity with The Legion. I think both the editors and writers have a hand in that.
Okay, I see your points. I would disagree with your usage of the word "unfamiliarity."
I am willing to bet money that a pow-wow session between Johns, Waid, Berganza and Wacker produced both Teen Titans #16 and Teen Titans/Legion Special #1 (again, because TT #16 leads into the Special #1 which leads into the Re-boot #1, Waid and Wacker need not only to know what is going on in TT #16 but to have a hand in it as well). Wacker and Waid are definitely familiar with the Legion.
Flight rings can't activate transuits (or naturally protect their wearers from the vacuum of space)? Okay.
It's silly to have the Persuader's ax cut through parallel dimensions? Okay.
In that case, I would say the creators "cut corners" in order to set up both the meeting between the Titans and the Legion and the imposing threat of Fatal Five Hundred as quickly as they could.
They needed to bring the conflict from point A (Teen Titans in the 21th century) to point D (the Fatal Five Hundred rampage on 31st century Earth), and the only QUICK way they felt they could do that is via Point B (flight rings activating transuits) and Point C (Persuader's Ax cutting through parallel temporal realities).
Contrived and silly? Sure, it can be looked at that way.
As I see it, the fuss about the flight rings is really not worth arguing about (innovations do NOT have to occur on-panel), and the Persuader's Ax is one of those super-hero comic book "science-fantasy" elements that you either swallow and continue reading or laugh hysterically at and drop the book.
It's the same when in the mid-1980s in a Paul Levitz/Greg Laroque LSH, Vol. 3 issue Mon-el brought a white dwarf star into Legion headquarters to act as a power supply for one of Brainy's contraptions.
-------------------- Omega Chase, available in stores in September: http://th3rdworld.com/comics.php
From: Long Island, NY | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I'm willing to take a leap of faith here. I'm trying not to be a stickler on the corner cutting and the off panel innovating. I know Waid and Wacker are familiar with The Legion, the thing that really bothers me about this whole thing is this:
The minister of paranoia seems pretty anxious to overlook these minor infractions. It just makes me think that something a little more sinister is going on here than what we've been led to believe.
Seriously though, I think that the creators need to be criticized and praised accordingly. I see that happening here.
-------------------- Something Filthy!
From: NOVA by way of NOIN | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
It was an honest error. I went to edit my previous post and accidentally hit the reply with quote button and add new post before I realized what happened.
Let me just add that I'm not sorry I posted it, and specifically didn't delete because I didn't know if that would take my count back down or not.
-------------------- Something Filthy!
From: NOVA by way of NOIN | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
So then I get to congratulate you on your REAL 1000th post. Cool.
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by minesurfer: Seriously though, I think that the creators need to be criticized and praised accordingly. I see that happening here.
I agree totally. In this case, I think the creative people behind this issue (whoever they may be) did a diservice to both of the teams with this contrived and hurried set up. With the price of comics being as high as they are now, I expect a lot more.
This is all my opinion of course. But I'd like to state it. Thanks.
From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by minesurfer: The minister of paranoia seems pretty anxious to overlook these minor infractions. It just makes me think that something a little more sinister is going on here than what we've been led to believe.
I'm not performing my ministerial duties, huh? Well, since SoM/Reboot won't be leader for much longer, I thought I'd slack off on the job. What's he going to do? Fire me! Heh, heh, heh. Lame duck Leader.
quote:Seriously though, I think that the creators need to be criticized and praised accordingly. I see that happening here.
If we can lump all those responsible for producing the comic book as "the creators" and blame them for a comic book we don't like, I don't have a problem with that. I just don't like it when one particular professional (in this case, Geoff Johns) gets singled out and blamed for something we really don't know originated with him.
(I actually just wrote an article for SBC.com on this very topic that should be posted soon.)
-------------------- Omega Chase, available in stores in September: http://th3rdworld.com/comics.php
From: Long Island, NY | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by minesurfer: The minister of paranoia seems pretty anxious to overlook these minor infractions. It just makes me think that something a little more sinister is going on here than what we've been led to believe.
I'm not performing my ministerial duties, huh? Well, since SoM/Reboot won't be leader for much longer, I thought I'd slack off on the job. What's he going to do? Fire me! Heh, heh, heh. Lame duck Leader.
Oh, I've got a much, much better idea...
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
-------------------- Omega Chase, available in stores in September: http://th3rdworld.com/comics.php
From: Long Island, NY | Registered: Apr 2004
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