posted
In isolation the comments seem very harsh and uncaring but coupled with the post Francis (hey, at what point do we get to use first names?) made that showed us the dialogue between him and Shooter in constructing a scene, the comments come to me as very open. I don't see any arrogance, or lack of appreciation for FJM, just as someone wrote, lack of tact, of understanding of the interpretation of the public words by those without intimate knowledge of the relationship between the two artists.
I don't know that I would want my boss being so open even if that openness stated I had the potential to be one of the greats but then, I never will. Manipul's interpretation is the only important one I suppose.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Well he was brought in to improve the book and give the fans a treat for the 50th anni...the sales went down and the fan base didn't exactly unify over the run...I'd say DC gave him more than enough opportunity to fix the book, 13 months is a long time. Plus, DC already has had a point hammered home of what they can do to improve sales.
To say this is entirely DC being unfair with Shooter is not true IMO...other than the fact that they didn't give him a chance to write the Legion that he helped to create in the first place...that's the only thing they did that was unfair to him....but they do that to almost everyone.
While there may be lower selling boooks that DC isn't cancelling, those books tend to have fan bases extremely happy with the book they are getting, plus I've heard they do well in trades and alternative markets...and that is most certainly not the case with the Legion. There are a great number of very vocal fans that are extremely unhappy with this run....unlike say, the group of fans that read Jonah Hex. There's also the fact that some of the lower selling books DC is continuing are attempts to bring back genres that have lost favor with the modern audience, or attract new readers.
With the Legion there is a far better selling alternative available, that seems to be attracting new readers, and generally has the approval of a large segment of fans.
Registered: Mar 2006
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Silver Age Lad
Part-time member living in another century
posted
Going back to JS's comments on "Super Lad". This follows broadly what happened in the animated series with Superman X and followed on from Supergirl's tenure in the book. The Con discussions about a Superman/Legion title were driven by DiDio so it is clearly his view that the Legion need an S.
Did Super Lad get dropped because of royalty issues as Shooter interpreted or is it more likely that given the decision to cancel, the introduction of an S character would have been pointless.
It does make me feel a little uneasy about the 'redeem Prime' plot in Lo3W. Is Prime the replacement for Super Lad?
I still think the cancellation is more to do with the outcome of Lo3W than Shooter. That Lo3W is running so late makes the situation look rediculous from the outside but presumably DC weren't aware of the delays when scheduling #50 as the last Shooter issue.
From: Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
That whole 'Super Lad' thing makes me wonder what a nightmare it must be to work in that environment.
"Write me a treatment for a year and a half or so."
Write, write, write. Plonk.
"Wow! That's a whole lotta stuff. Did I ask for all this stuff? Anyway, rewrite it to center around a new character that we're tentatively calling To Be Announced Lad or Not-Super-Boy."
Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite. Plonk.
"Oh, you're done? Crud, I forgot to mention, get rid of any reference to Not-Super-Boy, the Siegel estate's lawyers are all up in my grill about my obviously baiting them by saying 'Superboy' all the time. Also write out Karate Casualty and Triplicate Corpse, 'cause, uh, we're gonna send them to a big, big party, where they will live happily ever after. Really."
click, click, BANG!
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: (hey, at what point do we get to use first names?)
I guess that since Francis has posted here, it makes him "one of us."
quote:I don't see any arrogance, or lack of appreciation for FJM, just as someone wrote, lack of tact, of understanding of the interpretation of the public words by those without intimate knowledge of the relationship between the two artists.
Yes, I don't believe Shooter meant any harm in his comments, but the issue of tact is a big one. Tact is merely the skill of avoiding giving offense in delicate situations, and few things are more delicate to an artist or writer (or any other creative individual) than public appraisal of his or her work. When such appraisal comes from someone of Shooter's stature or reputation in the industry, it can be magnified for better or worse.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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In a follow-up story, Shooter has clarified that his comments on Francis sounded harsher than he meant them to, although he didn't precisely retract those comments.
-------------------- Aaron Kashtan/Sir Tim Drake
From: Providence, RI | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kid Quislet: I'm not so sure "Super Lad" would have been a great idea. IMHO, Superboy/man Prime was always a crummy character (especially now as a ruthless villain) and just waters down the integrity of the Superman mythos. Extra "Supers" might help sell a few more issues, but in the long run, the Legion would probably suffer script-wise (more than it already has) from a mandated psuedo Superboy.
Better stay away from 'Action' and it's current storyline! There's super Kandorians everywhere! I wonder if the development in Action is what changed DC's desire for a Legion Super Lad?
And I've always been kind of fond of the 'diluted' Superman world. I just don't believe that less if always more.
I like big guns around because the villians are so huge and many and organized and etc.. If you're going to keep the bad guys small powered or singletons or whatever, a Matter Eater Lad might be okay but a New Gods/Darkseid attack needs everything the heroes can throw!
And I agree with Set, BANG.
Maybe DC should treat the Legion especially like a Vertigo book or an Elseworld Forever thing. Then, the writers could use whomever they want and not try to blend with the rest of DC.
Poor Shooter and fjm! This seems like a mess all the way around.
-------------------- 'In the twinkling of an eye' I'll be dancing in the sky!
Come, join me!
From: Salem, Oregon USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
So, in the "never satisfied" category, this time I'll say that Shooter is being too harsh on hisself.
I learn so much about the legion members with the little off-hand comments made by Shooter's characters or as many here have noted, their dorms, their thought balloons...
I will miss not knowing what this story was meant to be but I've enjoyed the story immensely. I have reread each Shooter issue at least three times to see the little clues and characterisations, something I've not done in a long long time. In a few issues he has done what he's done better than any other creator IMO, introduced new characters with staying power.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think Shooter and Waid are both guilty of dragging things out too long, making things that should have been done in an issue or two go on for issues and issues and issues. I do wonder if it's all about making it fit into collections. I do wonder if TPTB made things go the way they did, interfering with the writers' intentions.
posted
It wouldn't surprise me if a Dev-Em shows up in the "New Krypton" story, or if he got shunted into the future as the future Power Boy.
From: Sumner, ME | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think that Shooter did a good job of working with what he acquired from Waid. Though for me, Waid's threeboot characters always felt like poor imitations of the originals.
I found the artwork to be good, but much preferred Francis’ pencils to the finished product.
From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I wonder if super lad was going to be a redeemed Superboy Prime.
Whether Shooter's issues are about him or Francis or DC or some other poor fellow, it's clear that the characters of the Legion of Super-Heroes aren't worth a mention.
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
In a follow-up story, Shooter has clarified that his comments on Francis sounded harsher than he meant them to, although he didn't precisely retract those comments.
That's nice to see. Francis has a classy reaction to some tactless commentary, and, upon reflection, Shooter admits that he put his foot in his mouth, which anyone familiar with the man's history would admit seems to be it's natural environment.
If only *we* could have reacted with as much class as Francis in the first place.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
We, the unruly mob of Legion fans, demand bread and circuses from DC.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Shooter seems to be playing the victim, too. "I can't say hello without someone asking why I made such a rude comment." Well, he didn't say "hello" to Manapul, he said "if he ever gets the grok of what he's supposed to be doing, he may be one of the greats."
That's a tad different. Earlier I said that Shooter is qualified to makes the statements he makes, but the fact that he whines about the unfair reception of his words actually rather bugs me. Stand by them or don't say them!
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