posted
Publicly, I'd thank Jim Shooter for the compliments as well as the criticism, but inside, I'd be very upset that he was unhappy with the visual storytelling on his return to the Legion.
I'd want to contact him and get a couple good examples of what he meant, page by page. At least I could take those lessons with me to the next project.
future king
Excuse me but can you please direct me to the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles?
posted
We will probably never know the real reason JS has left the book, or why it is being cancelled. Maybe that was the long-term plan and, regardless of Shooter coming on board towards the end or not would have made no difference, who knows? Yes Francis is an awesome artist and did a great job, but Barry Kitson was equally great and was a highlight for me on this book. My only negative point during Jim's run on the series is that he had within his means the power to "fix" some glaring problems with a few dangling plots... those being the Dream girl botch job and the Jeckie's going crazy story line. Uh-uh fellows, it just ain't workin' for us fans! Those resolutions would gained our support back to some degree. I had hoped that Jim would use some of his time on the book to fix these problems (and redeem Princess Projectra since I think he was responsible for her spiralling downward to begin with). Waid gave us a kick-ass Nura, then turns around and kills her. Uhhhhh.... no comment. And what the heck did you do to Cosmic Boy dude?? He never should have left, no matter what the "long term plan" was. We the fans need our 3 founders in tact, on a monthly basis. Now let's go back to Shooter. He gets his hands on one of his earliest creations with the chance to make her a great heroine again (in the Sensor Girl mold), but chooses instead to make her a villian??!? He also had an opportunity to fix the relationships within the group (ie: give Garth and Imra their true bond back, put Tinya and Jo together, make Brin and Ayla discover each other, etc. This set to tone of the book off for me right from the beginning). Then maybe we fans would start to get excited about this book again, and start to warm up to what we have come to love from 50 years of beloved history with this book, THE RELATIONSHIPS.
I'm sorry to say but I am glad that this book is being cancelled because, for me, it never really was my Legion. More like an experiment gone waaaaaaaay bad! In my opinion BOTH writers had a hand in souring the milk for the past 47+ issues. Let's hope some lessons were learned and that future creators of the book have better luck. I think its cancellation actually adds to the excitement of the 50th anniversary, to see it finally gone and buried (although I never thought I'd ever hear myself say that out loud).
From: ontario | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
future king, I agree with you. I pretty much said the same thing.
quote:Originally posted by Sketch Lad: I think Shooter and Waid are both guilty of dragging things out too long, making things that should have been done in an issue or two go on for issues and issues and issues. I do wonder if it's all about making it fit into collections. I do wonder if TPTB made things go the way they did, interfering with the writers' intentions.
quote:Originally posted by future king: And what the heck did you do to Cosmic Boy dude?? He never should have left, no matter what the "long term plan" was. We the fans need our 3 founders in tact, on a monthly basis.
You know, the Legion has survived periods without one (or more) of the founders before. I'm not saying if those were good choices or not; I actually don't know.
quote:He also had an opportunity to fix the relationships within the group (ie: give Garth and Imra their true bond back, put Tinya and Jo together, make Brin and Ayla discover each other, etc. This set to tone of the book off for me right from the beginning). Then maybe we fans would start to get excited about this book again, and start to warm up to what we have come to love from 50 years of beloved history with this book, THE RELATIONSHIPS.
I know and feel some of that... but this is a new universe, and it shouldn't just replicate old stories and situations. This Legion wasn't started with the intention of evolving it toward a Silver-Age-like version (at least, as far as we know) and I'd be disappointed in a writer trying to turn it around into that. It's not broken; it doesn't need to be "fixed". You have to remember that the old stories still exist, so a new version has to distinguish itself.
Actually, I am disappointed in Jim Shooter for doing just that. His stories don't really seem specific to the threeboot; they're just the Legion he wants to write. He only picks up on plot threads he likes and ignores the rest.
And I was more waiting for Ayla to find Vi, but somehow I could feel that that wasn't the way this boot was going.
-------------------- Tom Strong, on nostalgia: "I suppose it's a ready substitute for genuine feeling." - Tom Strong #6, Alan Moore
From: Calgary, Alberta | Registered: May 2008
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Triplicate Kid: And I was more waiting for Ayla to find Vi, but somehow I could feel that that wasn't the way this boot was going.
Given the time snippets of time they spent together (in their undies, no less), I was kind of squinting around the edges to see if there was gonna be any Ayla / Tinya action.
I've noticed also that Tinya seems to wander in and out of various Legionnaires quarters quite freely. I know, that sort of freedom is her superpower, but I do wonder sometimes how many of the Legionnaires *welcome* her just popping in whenever she wants. (Clearly Jan doesn't mind, but her just phasing into Projectra's room unannounced seemed a little risky, given how short-tempered she is, and that she and Brin sometimes have snuggle-time...)
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Set: Given the time snippets of time they spent together (in their undies, no less), I was kind of squinting around the edges to see if there was gonna be any Ayla / Tinya action.
I've noticed also that Tinya seems to wander in and out of various Legionnaires quarters quite freely. I know, that sort of freedom is her superpower, but I do wonder sometimes how many of the Legionnaires *welcome* her just popping in whenever she wants. (Clearly Jan doesn't mind, but her just phasing into Projectra's room unannounced seemed a little risky, given how short-tempered she is, and that she and Brin sometimes have snuggle-time...)
Hey with Ayla it was a pajama party ok? As for popping in and out and Projectra having cuddle time with Brin, she didn't put the rubberband on the door handle, so I knew it was ok.
posted
So I am back from 20 days away and I have to stick to what Shooter says:
1) He praised FJM a lot, in my opinion. Shooter has been EIC of probably Marvel's second best period. He knows storytellers and he gave his honest opinion on FJM next steps to excel. I find that fascinating and, being an artist, I'd be much happier than those "I've been blown away" crap that doesn't help and actually doesn't mean anything. 2) DC Editorial is once again to blame for Legion's demise. It wasn't the editor, the artist or the writer. It was pure DiDio crap and his flow-of-the-month style of managing properties.
I'll stand by Jim Shooter's words, first of all, because his track record is WAY ABOVE Geoff Johns, Dan DiDio and whoever is the newest flavor of the month. I'll miss this excellent rendition of the Legion, who didn't want to be a reboot Legion or a third-rate X-Men under Shooter/Manapul.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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future king
Excuse me but can you please direct me to the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles?
posted
I'll stand by Jim Shooter's words, first of all, because his track record is WAY ABOVE Geoff Johns, Dan DiDio and whoever is the newest flavor of the month. I'll miss this excellent rendition of the Legion, who didn't want to be a reboot Legion or a third-rate X-Men under Shooter/Manapul.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Hi Ricardo, Shooter took over a series that was already a bad idea at the time he came on. I just don't think he "fixed" the series the way a lot of us thought he might, legendary writer though he may be. I am enjoying Geoff Johns' writing of the Legion much more at this point in the game.
From: ontario | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I believe if Shooter got his way on this with his large epic with little or no DC inteference it would have been AMAZING! The guy is a genius. I really sad we didn't see that.
Francis is an amazing artist. In a way it's kind of unfair to pair him with Shooter. The man is such a perfectionist I think a veteran penciller would have worked out better.
It's a catch 22. Use the up and coming dynamic artist or the not so exciting veteran that can execute what Shooter wants better? A veteran with thick skin that can deal with a Shooter.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Francis is an amazing artist. In a way it's kind of unfair to pair him with Shooter. The man is such a perfectionist I think a veteran penciller would have worked out better.
It's a catch 22. Use the up and coming dynamic artist or the not so exciting veteran that can execute what Shooter wants better? A veteran with thick skin that can deal with a Shooter.
And there's the part where the editor-in-chief needs to be on the ball. Shooter wrote the entire story, it sounds like, and had already worked the visuals out in his head *before he had worked with the artist.*
It's supposed to be collaborative, and, when working with an artist with a certain strength, the writer should be mapping out scenes to play to that strength. It's not supposed to be, 'I decided what you'll be doing. Start drawing, monkey-boy.'
I think Shooter's got so much experience in the field that he needs to be paired up with someone who will get in his face and add more of his own aesthetic to the mix, and not just get handed a sheaf of notes of *exactly* what he's supposed to do like a homework assignment from the man who is supposed to be his creative partner.
That's an Editor-in-Chief call, to pair up creative teams that can work well together, and who are well-matched. This was a failure right at the top, IMO.
[And this is hardly a Shooter-specific ailment, the whole writer-dictating-scene thing. I weep for the dudes who have to draw for Bendis. 'Oh, rapture and glee! Another nine-panel page of people sitting around a table talking about the Scarlet Witch! How can I contain the raw seething energy that will leap off of this page?']
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Shooter has always worked with full scripts with a lot of visual forethinking. he used to give Curt Swan layouts and character designs on Adventure. Many many comic writers work that way. in fact it used to be the "DC way" of working versus the "Marvel way" of plots/drawing/then dialogue the art.
-------------------- Gorilla Nebula
From: san francisco | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
To be honest, none of his issues really bowled me over. I don't know if it was the writing, the art, the characters, or what is was, exactly. In fact, I can't honestly look back over the last year and tell you even remotely what happened in the last 10 or 12 issues. Nothing stuck in my head.
I think there was more hype than substance with his return, but then I'm also the guy who doesn't think Grant Morrison is all he's cracked up to be
-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
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