Topic: Things you are supposed to like...but secretly hate!
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: The Decemberists. Local band makes good worldwide plays for the President yadda yadda yadda.
I just think there are several other bands who pull off their particular shtick much better than they do. And the constant local hype about them is annoying, as if there's no other musicians in town capable of doing interesting things. Ppphht.
Even though I happen to think Hazards of Love was one of the top two or three albums of last year, their music always seems to be missing something. I think it's the lack of woodwinds.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Lamb. I'm Irish so I'm supposed to love it. But its actually one of the three foods I actually hate. I find it repulsive...the smell alone almost makes me vomit.
I personally thing its part of Irish cuisine because no one could afford anything else for so long. I think its time to shed ourselves of its horrific legacy.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
Cobie, I feel the same way about Gefilte fish and chopped liver. Just substitute "Jewish" for "Irish."
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I find myself wanting to defend many of the things people have said they hate, here. But then I remembered that this is the "hate" thread. So... nevermind!
But yeah, I did too when I reread this thread, particularly beer and the Dark Knight movie but I figured I'd let everyone 'hate' a little bit. Sports are another thing I could defened, pointing out its 'sports fans' and specific athletes and professional sports people probably hate but I kind of prefer the hating going on right now
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sketch Lad: I find myself wanting to defend many of the things people have said they hate, here. But then I remembered that this is the "hate" thread. So... nevermind!
Wait! Wait!
This is the perfect time to start a "In Defense Of..." thread.
cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Uh, I can't buy it as feminism when the combined weight of all the female leads is still one-third my total weight. If you want eye-candy with only so-so actors running around staking pretty-pretty vampires while spouting po-mo "urban patois" and listening to generally uninspiring "alternative" power-ballads, be my guest. But stop trying to sell it to me as high-toned nourishment when it's just BBQ pork rinds with an "organic" label slapped on. Please. Just. Stop.
Also, the "style" of dialogue makes me want to puncture and napalm my eardrums after ten minutes of being subjected to it.
Additional lost points for the annoying habit my friends have of sighing and calling him "Joss" in a tone so fawning that even the unkindest caricature of an early period Trekkie would feel embarrassed for them.
Super-double bonus extra points for supposed oppressed persecuted nerds and geeks who all look like the Hollywood Pretties they are and wear super-expensive clothing while claiming to be hard up for money.
"Whedies," just throw yourselves a convention and be done with it.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Agreed! Love it! Especially the part about calling him "Joss".
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[bows]
I trace the beginning of the end of a cherished friendship back to the moment when I COULD NOT get said friend to shut up about that damn show! Or else when she first got me to watch it with her, and when it was over I said, "Yeah? And...?"
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
It's been years since I watched Buffy, but I remember enjoying it. I think it exceeded my expectations because it wasn't simply a cheesecake show (though this is Hollywood, so it's understandable that Sarah Michelle Gellar looked like she did). But the show was fun to watch because it tapped into the feelings that a lot of teenagers have: that is, the adult world doesn't understand them and they are basically on their own in solving their problems/figuring life out.
Feminine empowerment? I never saw the show in those terms. To me, it was about a group of friends who tried to use their talents to accomplish some good in the world . . . like the Legion, sort of.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
Well, y'know... The female characters are a big part of why I like the Legion, but there's a difference between saying that and proclaiming that it's feminist. Because, frankly, it's not. And if people started trying to pitch the book as such, I'd probably be annoyed, for the same reason I get annoyed at academics and wannabees carrying on about Buffy as a feminist icon and Joss Whedon as some grand-hearted noble he-feminist or whatever.
Trouble is: when you have a super-ultra narrow range of "acceptable" looks for your female characters and they just happen to conform with the criteria of how female protagonists look everywhere else, you're not really selling feminism-- at least, you're not selling the version I understand. Which would be:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny. What comes from Buffy and even some well-written superhero comics with decent art is:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny so long as you have a look that only about 5% of all women in this world can ever hope to have.
No, sorry. Everyone loves their trash and eye candy, me included. But I have little patience for people trying to gussy it up as if it were an elevating experience that gives an umambiguously positive message. Because it isn't, and it doesn't.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by cleome: Well, y'know... The female characters are a big part of why I like the Legion, but there's a difference between saying that and proclaiming that it's feminist. Because, frankly, it's not.
Agreed.
Though "feminism" probably needs to be defined, and it needs to be understood that the early Legion creators may have had very different ideas of what equality meant. For example, Saturn Girl was definitely the Legion's leader for two years. On the other hand, some adventures were considered "too dangerous for a girl," including her. So, how does one reconcile these two apparently contradictory ideas? Perhaps it's best to acknowledge that our understanding of equality has grown in fits and starts like everything else.
quote:Trouble is: when you have a super-ultra narrow range of "acceptable" looks for your female characters and they just happen to conform with the criteria of how female protagonists look everywhere else, you're not really selling feminism-- at least, you're not selling the version I understand. Which would be:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny. What comes from Buffy and even some well-written superhero comics with decent art is:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny so long as you have a look that only about 5% of all women in this world can ever hope to have.
Again, agreed.
In the early '90s, Valiant Comics published a comic called Harbinger, which featured an overweight superheroine called Zephyr ("Zeppelin" to her less charitable teammates). I thought of this as a step in the right direction; it's a shame that Valiant imploded after Jim Shooter left.
However, it also strikes me that men are stereotyped in popular culture as much as women are, yet men never seem to complain about how male characters are depicted. In Buffy, there were two main male protagonists: Xander and Giles. Both were geeky and unpowered, compared to the female characters (Buffy the slayer, Willow the witch, etc.).
(Well, there was also Angel, but he's a stereotype of another sort: handsome and beefy with a dark side.)
I can't imagine men complaining about such characters. As a man, I sort of identified with each one in a different way. They allowed me to live vicariously through three different characters (again, a lot like the Legion).
quote:No, sorry. Everyone loves their trash and eye candy, me included. But I have little patience for people trying to gussy it up as if it were an elevating experience that gives an umambiguously positive message. Because it isn't, and it doesn't.
Sure, everyone sees in a show what they want to see. To some, Buffy is a positive message; to others, it's negative. And to others still, it's simply entertainment.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[snip]
He Who Wanders:
quote:...However, it also strikes me that men are stereotyped in popular culture as much as women are, yet men never seem to complain about how male characters are depicted. In Buffy, there were two main male protagonists: Xander and Giles. Both were geeky and unpowered, compared to the female characters (Buffy the slayer, Willow the witch, etc.)...
I will never be able to agree with this. It's a trope in of itself that "average" or even "ugly" men of all types in various pop cultures are paired with traditionally beautiful women. Men in general have a much wider range of appearances that permit them to be, if not "beautiful," than certainly fully-dimensional beings who others find desirable. Granted, there's perhaps less latitude there than there once was in Hollywood, but the divide is still noticeable.
The classic example in comics would be Peter Parker. He's not supposed to be drawn like Steve Rogers, though he's also not supposed to be drawn like The Toad, of course. But it's part of the character's history that beautiful, desirable females have always been interested in him. I can't honestly think of a single female in a heroic role who diverges from the gender "ideal" even to the mild degree that Peter Parker does. The closest you'll get is a female like Jennifer Walters/She-Hulk or [blecch] "Looker" from the original Outsiders. In male characters, a "homely" appearance is just part of what the hero is. In female characters, a "homely" appearance is a disease that has to be "cured" before a woman can truly be heroic.
quote:...Sure, everyone sees in a show what they want to see. To some, Buffy is a positive message; to others, it's negative. And to others still, it's simply entertainment.
And, yeah, I obviously agree that everyone's entitled to their escapism, whatever it is. I just can't deal with the worship that follows this particular program and its creator all over the place-- at least amongst many, many fans I know.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by cleome: I will never be able to agree with this. It's a trope in of itself that "average" or even "ugly" men of all types in various pop cultures are paired with traditionally beautiful women. Men in general have a much wider range of appearances that permit them to be, if not "beautiful," than certainly fully-dimensional beings who others find desirable. Granted, there's perhaps less latitude there than there once was in Hollywood, but the divide is still noticeable.
I hadn't thought of it this way. But then I hadn't thought of Peter Parker as being an "average" or "unattractive" man. During the Ditko era, he was certainly depicted as being weaker and bespectacled, but by the '70s (when I encountered him), he no longer wore glasses and was protrayed as no different than any other run-of-the-mill male hero.
You could be right about male heroes being portrayed as having wider range of acceptable physical features than females. However, even when an older male is featured in a movie (e.g., Michael Douglas) and paired with a younger woman, he's usually someone who was already considered attractive to begin with.
Returning to Buffy, I'm still struck by the idea that it was the women who had the powers in the show and not the men. The show may fall far short of making a feminist statement, but I think it was quite revolutionary in its own way.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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![[shrug]](graemlins/shrug.gif)
And the constant local hype about them is annoying, as if there's no other musicians in town capable of doing interesting things. Ppphht.
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Just substitute "Jewish" for "Irish." ![[I Dunno]](graemlins/urk.gif)
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Or else when she first got me to watch it with her, and when it was over I said, "Yeah? And...?"
