I'm fine with the Time Trapper being an enemy of Superman. It actually gives me hope that Johns may be able to come up with a plausible explanation for the different versions of the Legion. It builds on the connection between his new version of the Legion and the current version of Superman. Best of all, it gives the Time Trapper a motivation that makes sense. He needs to destroy Superman. The Legion helped Superman become the hero that he is. He can get at Superman by going after the Legion. I would prefer that he not be revealed as an established Superman villian, though. That would leave the Legion open to another reboot the next time DC decides that Superman needs a makeover. They would decide to return to the "classic", "original" version of the villian and the Legion would be caught up in the mess again.
[ June 15, 2008, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Why can't it be tied to Final Crisis and deal with the last man on Earth? Remember: FC is Morrison AND Johns. And Johns has hinted that all Crisis seemed to be tied to the Legion of Super Heroes. And as with most of you guys, I'd rather TT was an entity rather than a character UNLESS it was a character who evolved to be an entity (kinda like The Spectre or Swamp Thing). And I doubt Booster Gold is the Time Trapper. That would blow for being simplistic to the core. However, Captain Atom could be pushed into it, as an evolution of that stupid Monarch thing. What a waste...
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: Thanks, Lard Lad.
I'm fine with the Time Trapper being an enemy of Superman. It actually gives me hope that Johns may be able to come up with a plausible explanation for the different versions of the Legion. It builds on the connection between his new version of the Legion and the current version of Superman. Best of all, it gives the Time Trapper a motivation that makes sense. He needs to destroy Superman. The Legion Superman become the hero that he is. He can get at Superman by going after the Legion. I would prefer that he not be revealed as an established Superman villian, though. That would leave the Legion to another reboot the next time DC decides that Superman needs a makeover. They would decide to return to the "classic", "original" version of the villian and the Legion would be caught up in the mess again.
Maybe that's Superboy's Prime destiny... to become the Time Trapper... It would tie everything down to the pocket universe...
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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Now someone explain how the embodiment of circular time becomes the embodiment of entropy, and everything will be perfect!
I'd say it was because Infinite Man was cycling through time because of the Time Trapper, each cycle through becoming more and more poweful. By forcing Rugarth through the cycles, not only was he was screwing with Brainy and Rond, but he was bringing about the event that would lead to his own creation, and he wanted himself good and charged up before he became himself.
That's paradoxical I realize...but somehow being a paradox fits the Trapper.
In fact you might even say the Trapper and the Infinite Man were birthed by the same event...each deriving power from a different concept of time. They could also have died or transformed at the same moment(the revenge arc) with Trapper ultimately winning the battle and absorbing Rugarth, or Rugarth becoming the Trapper...the end result is a being who is the complete master of time. Who could then say, retcon himself into creating the Legion.
You could even say the Trapper would then gain power by manipulating and altering time, and that's why he does what he does.
Hmmm...maybe that duality was why Rugarth was always catatonic once he was no longer the Infinite Man.
The bigger problem I'd have is that the Time Trapper hates both Superboy and the Legion, while Rugarth seems to reserve his hate mostly for Brainy and Vidar.
In any case there are different ways you could work it, although since Infinite Man hasn't been a part of any of the Post Crisis Legion timelines that I can think of, and the Time Trapper has had a great deal to do with the other Legions....that origin idea may be kind of obsolete now.
Registered: Mar 2006
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Or...they could just keep making him something new every time. New origin, new alter ego...
That has kind of become his schtick, to be someone different every time. And it makes a lot of sense if you think about it...he's the living embodiment of a reboot/retcon, that would definitely make him a good Legion villain.
Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: [QB] Why can't it be tied to Final Crisis and deal with the last man on Earth?
Hmmm...it could be...but why would the Last Man on Earth become the Time Trapper? The Universe is going to be around a lot longer than Earth...or humankind most likley. I mean I could see it as him being the last living creature(along with the roaches I guess), in the Universe...we'll call this one the Galactus orgiin...but I would not necessarily say that means he had to be the last man on Earth.
But let's just say he is...that still begs the question of who was that last man?
That's a case for Vandal Savage right there, or any of the other immortals or time travelers we mentioned.
quote: And I doubt Booster Gold is the Time Trapper. That would blow for being simplistic to the core.
So I'm guessing if Booster's out, Krypto is a definite no?
It could work...
What about the Composite Superman? Seriously.
Or like Lone Wolf Legionaire mentioned...the Cyborg Superman, who is trying desperately to die and is pissed because he can't.
Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: Maybe that's Superboy's Prime destiny... to become the Time Trapper... It would tie everything down to the pocket universe...
See, that's a little bit closer to thinking like Johns, as opposed to thinking like ourselves. Most of us still are clinging to our own ideas as Legion, Superman or sci-fi fans. But ultimately, the Trapper is in the hands of one guy...Geoff Johns.
I hope Superboy/man-Prime's not the Trapper, personally. He's just such a brat and not exactly a thinker, y'know? But if you look at what Geoff's doing in JSA with the Kingdom Come Superman, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to conceive that the Trapper may be another version of Superman. He could be the KC Superman, Earth-2's Superman or--wait for it--Pre-Crisis Superman!
Pre-Crisis Superman--wouldn't that be a kick in the privates? If you let it percolate in your noggin a little while, it makes a crazy kinda sense! Admit it, that would make for a hell of a backstory...though possibly difficult to reconcile with stories from before Crisis. But everything after Crisis? Oh yeah, I can see it!
Anyhow, the Trapper having once been a version of Superman, pre-Crisis or otherwise, who's jealous of ours and wants to hurt him would certainly make sense. I'm gonna stick my neck out and predict that.
Again, I hope it's not Prime, though. I can see Trapper-Supes manipulating Supes-Prime, but I can't see S-P ever becoming more than a loose cannon/psycho type.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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And, still thinking like Johns, there's also Luthor or an alternate Luthor like Alexander Luthor. (Yeah, I know they killed him off, but resurrections happen.)
Of course, there's always...pre-Crisis Luthor!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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This convo has sure wandered far afield. I'm still considering Supergirl's importance to the Legion. And consequently where Laurel Gand might fit in the DC Universe..if at all. Can't her origin take place in the "present" 31st Century DC Universe?
Following that though, I've always been comfortable with the Time Trapper being the embodiment of one of those universal forces (or something) similar to The Endless perhaps. It makes sense that over time different sentients would assume the office. Gods come and gods go. Nothing to see here, move along.
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Although I like the entropy concept, I'd agree it doesn't really fit with Johns' style - or the style of the DC event comics. Is a Big Reveal moment required? Otherwise, the Time Trapper could be left unidentified and ambiguous, a creature in his own right rather than some other established enemy of the Legion or Superman. In that case, Jerry's three categories of time provide the perfect reason why the the Time Trapper hates the Legion.
No one's suggested Batman? It's a big leap and would require some cosmic event to turn him into the Trapper, but Johns has developed his antipathy to the Legion. Not really serious here - if it has to be an established character, I'd expect something more along the lines of one of the Luthors.
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: Following that though, I've always been comfortable with the Time Trapper being the embodiment of one of those universal forces (or something) similar to The Endless perhaps. It makes sense that over time different sentients would assume the office. Gods come and gods go. Nothing to see here, move along.
Quite. You've even found the precedent.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
I'm not a huge Piers Anthony fan but the Incarnations series provides a a framework for the idea that there are certain concepts that require a "host" in order to be interacted with.
Despite the Trapper's seeming humanity (underneath the robe) he's something far different. Witness the Progenitor, being immortal is often shown in literature as sometimes cycling into madness for long periods.
The one thing I liked about Rokk Krinn being revealed as a Time Trapper was the idea that he'd tried out a series of ideas to make the tools he needed to achieve his goals. That makes sense too. Roger Zelazney uses time travel as a weapon in Creatures of Light and Darkness and David Gerrold uses a similar idea in the man Who Folded Himself. Perhaps it's too much for a human to exist in several places at the same time but for an entity like the Trapper it's almost unavoidable.
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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Ever notice that Absorbancy Boy's old Grell outfit is the same color as Time Trapper's robe?
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: The Legion is the embodiment of the third theory. If time is infinite there is always hope. Hope that things will change. Hope that things will get better. We have an infinite amount of time for things to progress. There can always be a brighter tomorrow. The Legion became the universe's greatest symbol of hope. As such, they are as much a threat to the Time Trapper as the Infinite Man. He must destroy the Legion to ensure his own existence.
Ah, the elegant simplicity of theory 3. It makes his oposition to the Legion largely conceptual - an idea I don't have a problem with.
-------------------- Tom Strong, on nostalgia: "I suppose it's a ready substitute for genuine feeling." - Tom Strong #6, Alan Moore
From: Calgary, Alberta | Registered: May 2008
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