posted
I'm going to guess Element Lad isn't homosexual in this reboot or probably Shavaugn Erin (if she ever shows up) is a man.
Just a funny feeling.
It's not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion since while there's always room for homosexual characters, the retcon for Element Lad was always extraordinarily badly done in my opinion.
It implied the future was dastardly homophobic that Shavaugn would have to become a woman to be with a person she liked.
[ February 27, 2005, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Charles Phipps ]
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: This is sneaking into homophobic territory. Not overt... but there. Including Element Lad, a character often speculated about as gay by fans *and* creators, makes it a bit more... there. It was a funny scene... but I think it might've communicated more than was intended. Or perhaps exactly what *was* intended.
Sneaking into would mean approaches homophobic territory. I was *not* calling the comic or creators outright homophobic.
If EL, SB and UB had never worked with TP (maybe she's been busy on Cargg bureaucratic business?) and didn't know what her power was (so many Legionnaires seem pretty clueless about each other...), then the scene would be a perfect little homage to very early Triplicate Girl/Triad Legion appearances in other eras.
But that's not how I read it. I read it as three boys so freaked out by the presence of other boys in a sexual-ish situation that they go running and yelling out of the room. Interesting that they stay together, though.
Actually, if you just considered what the word 'homophobia' actually means (fear of same-sex sex), the scene-- or at least the male characters-- definitely *is/are* homophobic. But since we use the word to mean much more than its technical definition, I would *not* label the scene or characters as such.
Sorry for any confusion.
I also wouldn't say that any of these characters experiencing a 'hetero' date precludes any of them from having or developing different facets to their sexuality.
I'd be surprised if they did, but it isn't ruled out, IMO.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: But that's not how I read it. I read it as three boys so freaked out by the presence of other boys in a sexual-ish situation that they go running and yelling out of the room. Interesting that they stay together, though
They need not be particularly freaked out by their being boys, either. They're three very different personalities--which is doubtless why Waid/Luornu chose them--and may simply not be interested in getting closer to each other. Maybe Dirk and Jo, for instance, just aren't Jan's type.
Also, even if they were all consumed with lust for one another, the sheer surprise/humiliation factor of finding out that your date was busy with two other people at the same time would be pretty powerful.
From: Columbus, Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Or maybe Jan thought it was all part of the 'dating ritual'... and he was just 'copying' UB and Dirk.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: If EL, SB and UB had never worked with TP (maybe she's been busy on Cargg bureaucratic business?) and didn't know what her power was (so many Legionnaires seem pretty clueless about each other...), then the scene would be a perfect little homage to very early Triplicate Girl/Triad Legion appearances in other eras.
But that's not how I read it. I read it as three boys so freaked out by the presence of other boys in a sexual-ish situation that they go running and yelling out of the room. Interesting that they stay together, though.
OK, they I definitely misread the intentions of your original post. Still, I don't agree. It could just be that they weren't into the orgy scene rather than anything else. That said, you could still be right.
-------------------- Dan
From: Newburgh, NY | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Personally, I think there's a certain questionability to anyone whose protest is that someone of their age isn't going to be comfortable with going against their own sexuality.
Though the joke is fairly juvenile, I'd expect freaked out reactions from plenty of true homosexuals if their date wanted to involve a girl.
quote:Originally posted by Charles Phipps: It implied the future was dastardly homophobic that Shavaugn would have to become a woman to be with a person she liked.
quote:Originally posted by Charles Phipps: Personally, I think there's a certain questionability to anyone whose protest is that someone of their age isn't going to be comfortable with going against their own sexuality.
LOL! You mean they wouldn't jump right in? My illusions are shattered...
quote:Originally posted by Charles Phipps: Though the joke is fairly juvenile, I'd expect freaked out reactions from plenty of true homosexuals if their date wanted to involve a girl.
I doubt they'd go running in abject horror, though... but if they did, I guess the dialogue balloon would read 'Gay Bar'!
Seriously, 'uncomfortable', sure... maybe angry or hurt. Big gulf between that and running away without even saying 'good night'.
It's belaboring the point, but a variety of responses among the very different personalities of EL, UB and SB would've been better.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I can't for the life of me see a reason for Jan to transmute that boulder. Just a demonstration of power for the sake of expository dialogue? Usually Mark's a bit more subtle than that, for instance I just realized that each of the guys shows off his power during thier date but they (and we) fail to realize that she's using hers too. I suppose the changing surroundings when changing point of view was supposed to be a clue but I missed it and fell for the surprise gag ending...and yes I think it's a nice touch to use the -bringing three different people together- bit from TG's previous existance.
Good issue but I want to know more about what happened to Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl, I was disappointed that we only got a glimpse of Garth and I think the SP Officer was Lyle's dad. -which would explain his shyness- Loved the Atom Girl scene, the whole thing sounds like such a con. Just the thing to liven up a dull day at the clubhouse. Lornu's new story wasn't anything like I expected but it's classic sci-fi (very Twilight Zone-ish) and I think that's part of it's point. "Heat Vision" - yeah! A Batman comic for a dating guide. My "Inner Nerd" was highly amused, not laughing mind you but tickled) A "Guess the Secret Identity" game seems perfectly reasonable for a bunch of comic book fans and Cham's faux pas was a laugh out loud moment for me.
Mark's pacing is pretty tight through this. Three cutaway scenes where we get the intergalactic news and everything else from TG's POV. And it's another "done in one" story. I'm loving this aspect of the book. Complete stand alone stories interwoven with long term stuff. (reminds me a bit of the old Levitz days) Waid's building interest in this "Intergalactic War" one reference at a time. By the time we get to the war part it'll be a full blown Legion Epic. (I hope)
I wonder if we're right about Mon-el, maybe SG couldn't find any evidence of him because he's in the Phantom Zone?
...and who's that in the first panel of page 18? (the page where TG joins the Legion) I'd guess the girl is Projectra but who are the two guys?
*Oh yeah I almost forgot to mention that I think I see Lash Lad in a crowd scene. I think Barry's inserting sketches of real people from the conventions as Legionnires. That's SO cool!*
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Charles Phipps: It implied the future was dastardly homophobic that Shavaugn would have to become a woman to be with a person she liked.
Actually, it implied that Jan wasn't gay at all.
Well I certainly had my arguement clarrified in one point :-)
and there's a certain level of social acceptance relevant in "running out screaming." Personally, I know plenty of gays who'd want to be able to run out because its a display
'HELL NO'
It's an immature response and implies a certain amount of freedom. I'm against "Element Lad is a hyper alien" though.
I like Element lad when he's just a orphan personally
quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson: Glad to read you're still finding lots to discuss - and spotting lots of the 'little touches' we're trying to include!
I asked this before after #1 and if you answered elsewhere, forgive the repitition but were there any "little touches" that we missed in the first two issues?? (stuff that wouldn't be spoilerish of course)
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson: Glad to read you're still finding lots to discuss - and spotting lots of the 'little touches' we're trying to include!
I asked this before after #1 and if you answered elsewhere, forgive the repitition but were there any "little touches" that we missed in the first two issues?? (stuff that wouldn't be spoilerish of course)
There are still a few unnoticed 'touches' but I don't want to reveal them until they've 'paid off' - I'll own up of course if someone spots them first!
quote:Originally posted by Charles Phipps: It implied the future was dastardly homophobic that Shavaugn would have to become a woman to be with a person she liked.
Actually, it implied that Jan wasn't gay at all.
I'd say it implied that *Shvaughn/Sean* thought he wasn't gay.
And it was made clear in that story that Shvaughn/Sean's homeworld *was* a homophobic/misogynistic place... not necessarily the greater UP.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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and he was just 'copying' UB and Dirk.
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