posted
True. I cannot imagine any mainstream comic book writer today aspiring to something like 5YL.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
As part of a fandom, my big wish would be that those that simply hate this part of Legion history for what it did to a (debatably) bright and energetic youth corps, could at the least disassociate it from Legion and enjoy it for the mind-blowing story-telling it was and is.
Those that hate it for other reasons, well I guess those things happen. I'm not sure this run could ever have a redeemed face.
If there had never been a Legion before this, I think the 5YL run would have a more prominent position in comics history. It leaves so many of the other corporate big-events in the dust IMO.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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Wow, an elseworlds issue of the Legion of Super Heroes. I remember really, really liking this issue for a couple reasons. Andrew Nolan is featured as a main character, and given the same heroic spirit that he showed in his few appearances in the Legion proper. Rond is given a major role as well. Mysa is used to effect, as is Glorith...a lot more on her in the coming issues to be sure. Surprised to see Mano in a supporting role, but it was fun to see him.
Due to Lar's destruction of the Time Trapper last issue, we are shown the unicverse as it would have been if the Legion had not been around at all. There are easter eggs all over the place in this issue, highlighting various Legionnaires and friends. The Heroes of Lallor, the Winathian clan that wields lightning, Celeste (although, we have not actually met her yet), Jacques, and Douglas. To just name a few.
Plot is pretty simple, Vidar pieces together the puzzle that Mordru himself has let loose in bits and pieces. He deduces that there is another reality that should have been. Glorith wants power, and hooks up with Vidar to get it. Ritual performed, and we fade to white for the second issue in a row.
I cannot help but thinking that this would have been a 6 month to a year story line in today's market. At least a double sized issue to be sure. It might have been fun to have a couple more issues of the "Mordruverse," but that was not meant to be (another thing that I'd love to explore in fanfic). They had a real Legion to get back to, and it wasn't even going to be one that we 100% recognized. Good or bad, this laid the groundwork for the future of the Legion for the next few years.
No text pieces this issue, as well as no letter pages.
Enjoyed the Knights of the 30 tales in the issue, and would really love to have gotten my hands on the Legion clubhouse snow globe.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think you'd get some debate as to calling this an "elseworlds" issue, at least in the sense that I understand it. I would say that these events "happened" and are a part of Legion canon.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I'll say this. My "love" of these issues has not diminished over time. I loved them when they came out and still do.
I will admit however, there was something about reading them the first time and being pretty much surprised by something every issue. Never knowing who was going to show up next, and what shape they'd be in.
Now, there's hunting for the little things that we know to look for now. We know who people turn oput to be, and where they are going to end up, but it is still a joy to go along for the ride with a clearer idea of what is happening.
I think that the reboot after all of this really hurt at the time. But I gave it a shot and followed it through till it's own end. The reboot started out strong as well, but then floundered for what seemed like forever, then seemed to find a voice again with DnA. Whether it was a great voice or not...meh, it was at least a return to what 5YL was for me...you never knew what was going to happen next.
Next up...Introductions and Reintroductions galore.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I think you'd get some debate as to calling this an "elseworlds" issue, at least in the sense that I understand it. I would say that these events "happened" and are a part of Legion canon.
Very true, it is another version of the Legion that appeared for one issue...in continuity, somehow it still feels like an elseworlds type tale. Really all I meant by that.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Issue #6, Apr 90 - Welcome to their nightmare
This issue was probably better for me on first reading. Still a solid issue with a lot happening...but it feels like there is just almost too much going on at this point. Thankfully the threads start coming together soon.
And away we go...again. After the one off issue in the Mordruverse, we're back in the here and now that we know...or are we?
Dirk, at the behest of Circe and the Dominators, is recruiting Celeste to investigate and find out who let Roxxas out. Knowing that they have set it up that she will never trace it back to Earthgov...or at least, never tell if she does. So we have now met Celeste. We are also introduced to Devlin (young reporter in the Jimmy Olsen vein) and Bounty (knowing the future of this character makes it interesting to analyze some of her dialog.) This odd group heads off to Trom, sight of Roxxas' greatest "accomplishment."
The other main theme of this issue is Reep's mission to Tharn to get Mysa from Mordru. Here we see Vykros (a vampire of sorts), who was supposed to eventually join the Legion...according to Tom B. We are treated to nightmares of wach of our crew, thanks to Mordru, and provided some loose background stuff on the characters involved. Kono had some bad experiences with the SP's, Reep fought his brother to the death, Jo relives his power gain with a twist, Rokk sees things that were not there at Venado Bay, and Furball is revealed to be Brin.
We then see the groups backup...Superg--wait, I mean the Flying Buttress herself, Laurel Gand. A new retcon that worked well for me.
We also get to see Jan on Trom.
We get text pieces on Mordru's return to power on Tharn, and a retcon piece on the "conspiracy" story. This gets touched on again, but the whole focus has now shifted from the Trapper to Glorith, and from somewhen in time to Daxam.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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As narrative, this is much easier to follow than the first two issues. We do get glimpses of several Legionnaires, but there are two main events that happen in this story: Jo is recruited by Cham and Rokk, and Roxxas kills Blok.
I would love to say that the first event is truly important, but Giffen, in his usual elliptical way, tells around the story instead of telling the story directly. For example, when Jo first encounters Cham and Rokk, we don't see this encounter; we only hear it through Mordru's servant. While this technique advances the plot, it deprives us of witnessing the reunion we've waited for. As such, the emotional impact of the scene--and much of the story--is stilted.
Blok's nasty end also comes across as a tragic waste--it does nothing more than establish Roxxas as a crazy badass. And the Legion universe is already full of crazy badasses (re: Mordru).
The emotional high point of the issue for me was seeing the statues of deceased Legionnaires on Winath. Nice to know that someone still cared . . .
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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When I first read this story, I didn't fully appreciate its significance. We'd seen "final battles" with the Time Trapper before, and, in fact, "final battles" with major villains are a staple of DC and Marvel (re: Kang). After awhile, they grow tiresome.
But this truly was the final battle, and the Legion has not been the same since. If the old Legion had to end, then Giffen gave it his best shot. Rather than having the team fight en masse (as we might expect), it all comes down to Mon-El, who makes a decision that real heroes make every day: "But somehow, somewhere, somebody else will rise up and take our place." There are echoes of true heroes making sacrifices and trusting in their belief that good will ultimately win, even if they are not around to see it.
That's as meaningful as Giffen gets, and it works quite well on re-read, particularly in light of what's happened since.
Once again, though, Giffen's elliptical storytelling ruins what could have been a powerful scene: the reunion between Mon and Shady. Instead of seeing this, we read captions in abstract panels. To obfuscate the scene further, Giffen includes dialogue between the Time Trapper and Eltro Gand (though we don't know who these voices belong to until later) in the same panels. Bad enough that we don't see an emotional scene, we also have to try to figure out who else is talking. I guess Giffen isn't much for sentimentality so long as he can keep the reader guessing.
Legion # 4 was a necessary evil: necessary because DC had to go to great lengths to justify the Legion's existence without Superboy. It's a shame that the company became so obsessed with the internal workings of its universe that it ruined one of the best franchises it has ever had. But Giffen did his best to end the old Legion in style, and, in retrospect, he succeeded.
[ January 07, 2010, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I was largely confused by what was happening in the discussed issues. Confused yet fascinated. I'm also a fan of Giffen's art style and the 9 panel grids.
posted
I'll gladly confess to being a less advanced species if I can get clear storytelling out of the deal.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Palette, species . . . they say you are what you eat.
If there is something redeeming in Giffen's confusing narrative, I'd like to know what it is. Perhaps I've just missed it, or perhaps I need a fresh perspective.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I love, love, LOVE the 5YL Legion series! This is what got me hooked on the Legion in the first place! For all the talk about the LSH being too dense to get into, this series might have been even harder, but the drama totally drew me in and made me hunt for back issues to find out what the LEGION was all about.
Issue #2 was absolutely the best Ultra Boy story to date! He, more than Rokk, made me really feel for what was lost when the Legion disbanded.
The Mordru-verse Andrew Nolan also made me a Ferro-Lad fan for life - and he only appeared in ONE issue! Awesome stuff!
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I discussed issue # 5 extensively a year and a half ago in this thread.
As for # 6 . . .
As a narrative, it holds together very well. It wasn't very confusing to follow on re-read, but, of course, this has to be understood in context. Knowing how the story turned out, who Bounty was, who Laurel was, etc., makes the issue easier to follow the second time around. Giffen throws so many new characters and subplots at us that, on first read, it was very disjointed.
I'm not sure what Cham hoped to accomplish by petitioning Mordru, but the scheme fails utterly. The failure provides us with a glimpse into what Cham, Rokk, Jo, Kono, and Furball fear the most, but it also makes them look like idiots for blundering into this trap. There's also a snippet of Mysa in Mordru's harem; she is apparently "sharing" the ex-Legionnaires' mental agony at Mordru's behest.
Giffen actually provides us with snippets of stories instead of full narratives, and this makes each issue, and # 6 in particular, unsatisfying. Just when you think a scene is going somewhere, he shifts us somewhere else, and we have to start all over--a process made even more laborious by his method of starting each scene with word ballons and letting us gradually figure out who's talking.
I recall being so frustrated and confused by # 6 that it was the last issue of 5YL I bought until many years later. Now, on re-reading it, I can't help but think that Giffen was trying to turn the Legion into Watchmen: he adopts all of the stylistic conventons of that series--nine-panel grids, text pages, a dark worldview-- but he lacks an understanding of the basic narrative techniques that made Watchmen so compelling. That is, he doesn't let us get close enough to any of the characters to care about them. Instead, we're treated to one shocking scene after another. But shock and awe only go so far.
[ January 09, 2010, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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