quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Well, the other aspect that we have to take into account is that Mordru is a master manipulater on a number of different levels. Presumably he plays along with the whole "reformed" role at first, and by the time the evidence of his continued evil surfaces, she's already married to him and he's too powerful to stop.
Good speculation.
It's interesting to read 5YL in conjunction with the Conway era. In Conway's day, writers went to great lengths to explain motivation and back stories so a character's actions made sense. Conway even goes to the extreme by giving us too much exposition in some instances.
Giffen is the complete opposite: he doesn't provide enough information. He leaves it to the reader to figure a lot of things out. While this can be an effective means of storytelling--it respects the reader's intelligence and gets the reader more involved in the story--it can fail if not enough information is provided. I think this is the case with Mysa: we're left to draw our own conclusions about how she ended up as Mordru's wife. I don't think this strategy illuminates her character; rather, it obscures her.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Set: Because the writers fear change or growth or character development.
It's not the writers; it's the company. Writers, for the most part, are hired hands--"work for hire," to use the legal term. Everything they do must be approved by the powers that be.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: It's not the writers; it's the company. Writers, for the most part, are hired hands--"work for hire," to use the legal term. Everything they do must be approved by the powers that be.
A valid point. Many writers love nothing so more as to take an established character and add something new. But, at a certain point, that writer leaves, or fiat comes down from on high, and things start changing back to the way they were a decade ago.
One thing that's interesting is that the character's are expected to act in character, because we hold our fiction to higher standards of 'making sense' and consistency than we do people in the real world, who regularly do 'out of character' stuff that baffles us.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Even when people act out of character, there's usually a reason for it. We--family, friends, general observers--may not be aware of the reason until much later, as we are usually preoccupied with our own lives or the person who is acting out of character may be adept at hiding changes that are going on within (drug abuse, for example).
But you're right, Set, that in fiction--not just comics--characters should have established personality traits and adhere to them unless something that makes sense changes those traits. Fiction is all about making sense of reality.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I don't think that we necessarily hold fictional characters to a higher standard. I think that it comes to something HWW said...there's usually a reason for breaches of character.
If a comic character does something "off character," we as fans want to know why. We want to have it shown to us. Something to justify this change.
A perfect example would be what happened to Hal Jordan. Total breach of character. Suffering the loss of that many friends and loved ones at one time would be a "cause" for his erratic actions. This has of course all been retconned away with the Parallax entity. But it still stands to reason that even though Hal had "come to terms with it" an issue or two before, something could have easily snapped in him causing what happened.
From the Legion, you have reboot Jan going insane after spending a long time (forget exactly how long they stated it was, something like millions of years) alone. That would do something to anybody's psyche.
It does not make the next set of actions by wither character any easier to justify, but it does give a basis for what happened. After all, these characters are "only human (Tromiam)," in that 4-color world we call comics.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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Not a bad issue. There's a lot of little things going on that move the plot forward. One thing I really liked, and it was really a small thing, was that Jo had an obvious tan in his scene. Nice little touch.
The Dominators are coming to Earth in force.
Dirk is being burned alive by his power and being reported dead by Earthgov.
The U.P. is trying to help...to no avail. S.P. troops are rebelling against the Dominators, and being purged. Circe takes a stand due to her troops being slaughtered.
Devlin meets someone in the "sewers."
Some hijinks involving Celeste, Kono and various other members of the Legion.
Mysa dreams of Amethyst.
Salu has a blue leg.Garth and Imra have twin girls.
Jo has fun with his "state of mind" tests after his recent bout in the past.
Rokk talks about Venado Bay with an Imskian soldier. We learn that Kent was on Braal's side during the war, and that it was Rokk that gave Salu the scar. This being the case, I totally understand her not wanting to loose it and what it means to her as a reminder of the things that had been done.
Ulu, Dag and Drura talk about the weather and "him."
"Him" of course being Tenzil.
Text pieces include Dominator battle strategy, and a piece on Venado bay by two opposing views.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I would be lying if I said I just loved TMK from the get go.
I love it now but much of it was VERY frustrating to me at the time. True fascination that blossomed into unbridled passion for it began with the intro of the batch SW6 around # 25.
Of course, I love it ALL now and realize it was a masterpeice from the start but all the unending death and destruction was-- WHEW.
Then came LSH # 11.
Now THAT was freakin' funny.
Then came #14.
Now THAT was freakin' FUNNIER!
I probably owe these 2 issues a lot for re-boosting my spirits and keeping me hanging on long enough to become the big LSH lover I became. (Infectious Lass didn't show up until about 16 or so; I shudder to think I could have dropped it before she appeared again). I certainly owe them for making me a Tenzil supporter for life!
quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: Boy there are a lot of details with Modru that you guys need to be filled in on from that 2995 LSH Mayfair book.
Mordru had his powers restored because of the Khunds attacking socerrors world. That's when the evil in him returned.
Forgot about all that. I have to find my copy.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: Boy there are a lot of details with Modru that you guys need to be filled in on from that 2995 LSH Mayfair book.
Mordru had his powers restored because of the Khunds attacking socerrors world. That's when the evil in him returned.
Sourcebooks and the like are fun, but they should not be relied upon for essential information that readers need to understand the story.
I feel the same way about the text features in 5YL. They can augment the world of the story and increase our appreciation of it, but the story should stand on its own without any supporting material.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Hmm... I'd agree about the sourcebooks, but I'd consider the text features an integral part of the story.
Anyway, I like my take on Mordru better, so I'm sticking with it.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Hmm... I'd agree about the sourcebooks, but I'd consider the text features an integral part of the story.
This is another area where I felt Giffen adopted the stylistic conventions of Watchmen without fully understanding how they worked. If one doesn't read the text features in Watchmen, one still understands the story. For example, we learn what we need to learn about Hollis Mason's book within the story itself (e.g., the Comedian's attempted rape of Sally Jupiter, Mothman going insane, etc.). The chapters of the book printed as text features add loads of additional informaton but are not essential to understanding anything within the story. For example, we learn the fates of Dollar Bill, the Silhouette, and the possible fate of Hooded Justice in the text features, but these are, relatively speaking, minor characters who have no bearing on the "present" story of Watchmen.
With 5YL, unless I'm mistaken, the first and only place we learn about Tinya's supposed passing is in a text feature. This is a major piece of information as she was a significant part of the Legion and Jo's life.
Stories are not research papers. They should not be annotated or have appendices.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Okay, so I missed the resolution of the Roxxas arc and jump back in during the middle of Kent Shakespeare's battle with the Persuader on Quarantine. The artwork and coloring of the underwater scenes made it very difficult to tell what was going on, but Kent's resolution of the battle was quite funny: using the Persuader's head to plug a hole in the auto forcefield.
I like Kent as a character, and this issue establishes him quite well. I felt sorry for Ivy when she overhears him planning to leave Quarantine to rejoin the Legion; I also felt sorry for Kent when he recalls her blistering farewell to him ("I hope you die on your first mission!").
The scenes of Jo being stranded on Khundia were quite good. I liked it that neither he nor we the readers (apparently) know that Jo is stranded in the past. That makes his confusion even more real.
Question: What color is the Khunds' skin? In various scenes during these four issues, the Khunds are shown to be yellow, somewhat lobster colored, and Caucasian. While it's understandable that their race might have more than one skin tone, it gets confusing in a book already overcrowded with aliens.
The scene between Rokk and Vi was very moving. Rokk, being the mensch that he is, actually apologized to her.
I'm not sure what to make of the "Interlude" with Glorith and the Time Trapper. Didn't we already establish that the Trapper was erased from existence and that Glorith took his place? Why was it necessary to show her killing him and taking the last of his power. She was already all-powerful in this continuity, wasn't she?
[ January 15, 2010, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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I think Giffen's calling is humor moreso than drama, as this issue is quite funny. Tenz remains unflappable no matter what happens to him, even being sent to the Evillo's Realm of Darkness. Of course, the Realm includes "the candle that must never ever ever ever be blown out"--and we know that it will be blown out in the end.
Page 9 contains probably the best use of the nine-panel grid I've ever seen.
This issue also works in several characters from the Legion's past surprisingly well. For the most part, Giffen and crew drop long unseen characters into the book like children popping in to say "Boo!" But here, time is spent with Calorie Queen, Saturn Queen, and Sugyn to establish their personalities and give them something meaningful to do. As a result, the story flows much better than most 5YL issues have so far.
I did not understand why Brek stayed behind to tutor Evillo's daughters. Granted that they fawned over him like a celebrity and Brek (the Charlie Brown of the Legion) probably isn't used to being treated that way. Still, his decision had no set up or explanation.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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The opening scenes of # 15 begin on a humorous note with the Legionnaires trying to fix their new headquarters on Talus; these scenes, however, do not prepare us for what lies ahead. The Khunds invade Orando and unleash a horrific new weapon: the Red Terror (shades of McCarthyism!).
The Legion make a decision to go to war and are immediately drawn into conflict with the Khunds. Several things happen on several fronts: Vi loses her leg in battle; Cham meets with a Khund spy; Furball is injured (off-panel); Chuck and Lu contemplate a possible invasion of the militia training academy on Xolnar, where they serve as inspector generals; and Lar and Tasmia show up on Talok VIII to render assistance.
Although the Legion gets into the battle too abruptly, the above scenes are choreographed very well. I must disagree with Dev's opinion that the fill-in art by Brandon Peterson is bad. Scenes such as these need clear establishing shots, a variety of page layouts, and distinctive character portrayals--all of which Peterson provides in abundance. Giffen's ususal art, confined to nine-panel grids, simply would not convey the fast-moving action and drama required.
In issue # 16, things go from bad to worse for our heroes. We can tell they're worse on the first page, as Brainy sports an eye injury. Despite a narrative that doesn't always show us important scenes such how he got the injury in the first place, Giffen and the Bierbaums effectively guide us through the battle. The tension is increased as our heroes try to figure out where the Khunds will strike next and err in thinking they will go to Talok instead of Xolnar.
The realism of these scenes become quite unnerving. I kept hoping that Chuck would use his Bouncing Boy powers, for example, and set things right. Instead, he and Lu have to give up the academy and make their stand in the pluridium mines--all the while losing some of their cadets to enemy fire. I'm not used to seeing Legionnaires in real war situations--and losing. This, I think, is 5YL at it's best: Giffen does indeed challenge our preconceptions of who the Legionnaires are and what their universe is about.
Again, I credit Peterson with rendering all of this in a style that makes every action clear, every character distinct.
Unfortunately, I'm missing # 17-18, which is a shame as I'm psyched to see what happens next.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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