quote:"2) Karate Kid was, and still is, a character I despise. As a matter of fact, way back when, the only reason I stayed on the Legion when it went Baxter was because Paul promised I could kill him. I am so hoping history will repeat itself."
With all due respect, I'm "SO" hoping not!
well that's too bad...because Karate Kid has died for the third time no matter what book Keith is associated with. The latest one recently was in Countdown.
From: Hayward, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by EmeraldEmpress: Giffen kill the original Emerald Empress, too. For me... It's only a bad and egocentric writer, and worse artist.
posted
I disagree. Both the deaths of Karate Kid and the Emerald Empress were well told and powerful stories. I think we have to take Giffen's musings as a bit of tongue in cheek. Giffen is a true giant in Legion lore, and had his hand in some of the most amazing Legion stories ever told. Sure, there is some ego involved, but I don't think we should dismiss his talent.
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: I don't think we should dismiss his talent.
What talent?
And while I'll allow that the LSV arc where KK died was a good story (partly because most of it was pencilled by Steve Lightle over Giffen's layouts), no one can convince me that the death of Emerald Empress story is anything but utter trash, especially since Levitz-without-Giffen had so impressively redefined the Empress in the Sensor Girl/New Fatal Five story. Levitz/Giffen's Empress story was a waste of a great character and a waste of trees.
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr: [QB] well that's too bad...because Karate Kid has died for the third time no matter what book Keith is associated with. The latest one recently was in Countdown.
He died AGAIN?? So was he the Lightning Saga Version or the Action version or the 3-boot version?
From: South Florida | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I didn't like his art in the period in which Sarya died, either.
But his work from a handful of stories before The Great Darkness Saga until the issue just before the Omen storyline is wonderful. Among my favorites on any title. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone there.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I don't think his art worked at all on the Magic Wars storyline. Giffen is awesome, however.
Levitz was far better when he had Giffen working with him, imo, and his run slowly descended into blandness once Keith left.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I'd say Keith's art definitely went in the wrong direction, but he's recently proven again at DC and Marvel that he still has the plotter/writer and layout chops. And though his art from Omen all the way thru Magic Wars was pretty awful, I did find myself enjoying it during his stint as artist on 5YL, grids and all.
Keith's a real pioneer and innovator in his own way in the comics industry, though he'll never get the recognition that Miller, Moore, Gaiman, etc. (and even Bendis and his ilk) get.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Just not a Giffen fan. For me he represents a time when DC seemed so disinterested in the Legion that they just handed the entire title over to one man and said, "whatever".
But since he seems to be such a polarizing figure I think there might be only one way to settle this matter; a tug-of-war match over a pit of GIANT BEAVERS!
[ March 23, 2008, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Ram Boy ]
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Not a big fan of his artwork (his early stuff is good, but not crazy good to me).
and I just can't get into the 5YL stuff, picked up some issues in the quarter bin and only read them once (of course, I will say i don't have a straight run of anything from that era, so that is a contributing factor).
But I agree what they (Levitz and Giffen, I don't know what the work load was) did to the Emerald Empress at the end of the Baxter series was criminal, way to totally punk one of your own villains into being worthless, all respect I had for EE as a villain totally went out the window when I finally got those two issues.
All this said, my favorite arc is probably "who is Sensor Girl" so I really don't see Levitz's writing chops diminishing with Giffen's departure (btw, what issue did he first leave?)
-------------------- Long Live the Legion!
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
He left for the first time after Baxter # 5, the end of the LSV arc.
I may be wrong, but I have the impression that by the time the Empress died, Giffen was doing most of the plotting. I think that Levitz's original intention to leave after Conspiracy would support this theory.
Regarding Giffen's early art, I just find something weirdly sexless about it no matter which phase he was going through. Greg LaRocque, by contrast, drew very sensual pictures.
And I agree that Levitz wrote just fine without Giffen.
posted
I am a huge Giffen fan, but I'm not too wild about his artwork between Omen and 5YL also.
But unlike other artists like Bachalo whose art and can no longer look at, Giffen did reach a point when his metamorphosis was over and what we got was 5YL. I love his writing AND his art during his tenure in v4. Of course it's not the beautiful, crystal clear George Perez style (which I love soooo much), but it's kind of an advanced comic art - very edgy, very complex, very dark - which got me from the first moment on (v4 #13 was my first Legion issue after more than ten years break). It was the perfect fit to the very complex storyline he was telling.
I also thought that Jason pearson was a very good follow on, I love the Terra Mosaic storyline as well. What I did not like so much were the fill-ins like Colleen Doran who did just not fit into the 5YL continuity.
As for the death of Emerald Empress... seems to be some time that I read it, cause I cannot actually remember it. Seems to be proof that the story really isn't that spectacular...
From: Bamberg, Germany | Registered: Feb 2007
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