quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: its ok stealth we all have our own views of how a character should be and be bitchy all you want...just dont go all stealth wanna breed with you mode ...that's just hurtful!
That took me a second to get. But I got it.
Stealth, oh yeah...Duo Damsel against the Trapper? What in sam hill? That didn't make sense.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
At least Duo Damsel's reasons for joining the conspiracy were clear. I never did understand Saturn Girl's involvement.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: its ok stealth we all have our own views of how a character should be and be bitchy all you want...just dont go all stealth wanna breed with you mode ...that's just hurtful!
LOL
Seriously, though, thanks for being understanding. At most other boards my reply would have sparked a flame war.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
This storyline prompted me to send the first letter I wrote to DC, out of five. I *loved* the mystery aspect of Sensor Girl's ID. I liked that it echoed the Saturn Girl/Element Lad 'conspiracy' way back in his origin issue.
My guess for 'Who is Sensor Girl' was Quantum Queen, based largely on my desire to see more of her, I think.
Her light-control powers could've accomplished a lot of what Sensor Girl did, in my own defense.
I wonder-- could Jeckie's new costume have been an equivalent to 'widow's weeds'?
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I wonder-- could Jeckie's new costume have been an equivalent to 'widow's weeds'?
That may have been part of it. I think another part was the quite sensible notion that Jeckie's powers are most useful when her opponents don't know what they are. And since they probably do know who she is, she needs to wear a mask.
posted
It seems to me the only advantage an opponent gains by knowing who Projectra is and what she does, is the nullification of the surprise element. Other than that, an "illusion" can be something much deeper and psychological than, say, the appearance of a fiery dragon. Subtler illusions can either generate fear from the inside or tap into an opponent's deepest phobias, any person's deepest phobias really. Projectra has demonstrated she can create the subtlest kinds of illusions to undermine both the psyche and the senses of her opponents thus rendering them incapable of "seeing through" the illusion. One example of this is what she did to Nemesis Kid.
From: Somewhere in the Multiverse | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dain: It seems to me the only advantage an opponent gains by knowing who Projectra is and what she does, is the nullification of the surprise element. Other than that, an "illusion" can be something much deeper and psychological than, say, the appearance of a fiery dragon. Subtler illusions can either generate fear from the inside or tap into an opponent's deepest phobias, any person's deepest phobias really. Projectra has demonstrated she can create the subtlest kinds of illusions to undermine both the psyche and the senses of her opponents thus rendering them incapable of "seeing through" the illusion. One example of this is what she did to Nemesis Kid.
Well, that's true when she's being well-written, which mostly hasn't happened. There are certainly some illusions that can cross you up even if you know they're illusions. What the mask gives her is not surprise but the absence of skepticism. Anybody who knows that they're going up against Projectra is going to have it in mind that maybe they shouldn't believe their eyes, but if they don't even know that, she's got that much more of an advantage.
(In my opinion, what she did to Nemesis Kid had nothing to do with her powers at all.)
quote:Well, that's true when she's being well-written, which mostly hasn't happened. There are certainly some illusions that can cross you up even if you know they're illusions. What the mask gives her is not surprise but the absence of skepticism. Anybody who knows that they're going up against Projectra is going to have it in mind that maybe they shouldn't believe their eyes, but if they don't even know that, she's got that much more of an advantage.
(In my opinion, what she did to Nemesis Kid had nothing to do with her powers at all.)
Well, I can see how that could work, of course, even though - pragmatistically speaking - she'd have to change her appearance quite often. It wouldn't be long before the Legion's opponents realised that the "masked woman" is either Projectra or some other illusion caster.
What she did to Nemesis Kid was, I believe, one of the cleverest uses of her power. The illusion that there are no senses. No seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no touching but an illusion of complete isolation from the universe. Unless Nemesis Kid had incredibly strong willpower he'd probably suffer a nervous breakdown soon, to say the least. I'm not a psychologist but the idea of not being able to communicate with the outside universe, not even by touching oneself, seems to me like the beginning of the deconstruction of consciousness, of selfhood. In other words, Hell!
You're absolutely right that rarely has Projectra been written well, regardless of her potential. Her power is visual and most writers were happy to use it in the most "superficial" -albeit pleasing and impressive - way.
[ October 12, 2007, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Dain ]
From: Somewhere in the Multiverse | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dain: Well, I can see how that could work, of course, even though - pragmatistically speaking - she'd have to change her appearance quite often. It wouldn't be long before the Legion's opponents realised that the "masked woman" is either Projectra or some other illusion caster.
Not if she was subtle about it. Which, as I recall, she was.
quote:What she did to Nemesis Kid was, I believe, one of the cleverest uses of her power. The illusion that there are no senses. No seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no touching but an illusion of complete isolation from the universe. Unless Nemesis Kid had incredibly strong willpower he'd probably suffer a nervous breakdown soon, to say the least. I'm not a psychologist but the idea of not being able to communicate with the outside universe, not even by touching oneself, seems to me like the beginning of the deconstruction of consciousness, of selfhood. In other words, Hell!
I understand your interpretation, but I don't share it. I think that she was just angry enough and strong-willed enough and... and... and queenly enough that Nemesis Kid couldn't bring himself to fight back. If it was just a matter of a new/clever/strange use of her power, his power would have counteracted it. I know that you can cite aspects of the art of that issue in support of your take on that scene; all I can say in response is that in my opinion it was drawn symbolically and dramatically but not literally.
Maybe I should reread it; I'm going from memory here.
posted
Which reminds me of another character. Martian Manhunter. Everybody knows his weakness is fire. Don't you think he would assume another identity? I mean he has shape shifting AND telepathy.
I like Projectra's identity always kept secret. She can appear as a different Legionnaire each issue.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:I like Projectra's identity always kept secret. She can appear as a different Legionnaire each issue.
I'd like that, too. I love futuristic costumes!
Matthew said
quote:I understand your interpretation, but I don't share it. I think that she was just angry enough and strong-willed enough and... and... and queenly enough that Nemesis Kid couldn't bring himself to fight back. If it was just a matter of a new/clever/strange use of her power, his power would have counteracted it. I know that you can cite aspects of the art of that issue in support of your take on that scene; all I can say in response is that in my opinion it was drawn symbolically and dramatically but not literally.
She was all those things. She felt them to the bone. That's exactly why she was able to cast such an amazing illusion, and her own pain and sadness and anger fueled her power so Nemesis Kid just couldn't counteract it. I'm not too familiar with how Nemesis Kid's power works - that is, whether it's instinctive and automatic or he needs to use his will too - but I believe Jeckie did use her power. It's possible that Nemesis Kid would be able to shake off her illusion eventually, though, using his power. I, too, need to reread that issue. It's been so long that I might have forgotten some details.
Matthew also said
quote:Not if she was subtle about it. Which, as I recall, she was.
Hmm, yes I see what you mean now that I think of it. If I remember correctly she did sort of "fool" even other Legionnaires about what her powers really were like. She could use "subtler" illusions against opponents without them realizing they were illusions, leaving them in the dark about her real identity. Of course she *would* have to change her costume regularly which is just fine as far as I'm concerned. After all, even her costume could be an illusion and Sneckie could even look human.
[ October 12, 2007, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Dain ]
From: Somewhere in the Multiverse | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I'm enjoying Dain and Matthew's interpretations of Projectra's powers.
Another possibility for her victory over Nemesis Kid, although somewhat tongue-in-cheek, is that he was simply afraid of women! Projectra, after all, had defeated him before -- in Superboy # 208 -- by casting an illusion of a monster that frightened him into forgetting to use his power. Going along with what Matthew said above, if NK knew who Projectra was and what her powers were (which he certainly did), he had no reason to be afraid of the illusion.
Also, in Adventure # 372, NK is defeated by Duo Damsel. Her ability to split into two bodies, we were told, rendered NK's power useless, as he could beat only one opponent at a time. I've always been troubled by this explanation. What prevented NK from simply adapting to her ability and splitting himself into two bodies? (Perhaps she surpised him before he had a chance to adapt.)
Taken together, though, NK's defeat by both Projectra (twice) and Duo Damsel might suggest an even deeper psychological shortcoming.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Thank you He Who Wanders. I enjoyed it too. It's nice to be able to talk about all the minutiae and trivia from the Legion history.
Considering how little "gnothi seauton" (know thyself) Nemesis Kid and many other villains display, and how inflated his ego could get from a formidable power like counteracting others' powers, I wouldn't be surprised if Nem really held quite chauvinistic views like "it's unforgivable to be beaten by a girl". Even in the 30th century when such views will, hopefully, be nothing more than "barbaric notions from the distant past", a guy like Nemesis Kid could well suffer from this defeat.
I'm not sure how his power works. He can't duplicate any power, so he wouldn't be able to split in two like Duo Damsel (Duplicate Boy would be able to do that). Could he even counteract a natural trait like Luornu's Carggian heritage? I suppose his power is something like creating an "antidote" of sorts to an opponent's super-powered attack, that nullifies the result of that power on himself. He couldn't nullify Luornu's ability to split in two, because that's another kind of power and if he could do that he'd have used it in other cases. As for Projectra, if he were really afraid of women, or women he had been defeated from, that fact may have contrbuted to his inability to shake off Projectra's "sensory deprivation" illusion that also shattered his already shaky "self image", so your theory may not be "tongue-in-cheek" at all!
From: Somewhere in the Multiverse | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I've never been able to get a grasp on Nemesis Kid's power, either, Dain. "The ability to defeat any one opponent" is open to any interpretation. It comes in handiest when he's fighting someone like Karate Kid; all it means is that he has to be tougher than KK. But how would he defeat Duo Damsel, Chameleon Boy, or Phantom Girl without taking on their abilities and, in effect, becoming Duplicate Boy, as you said?
I guess that's why NK has always been one of my least favorite villains. His power is simply too vague to make sense.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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and be bitchy all you want...just dont go all stealth wanna breed with you mode ...that's just hurtful!
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