Silver Age Lad
Part-time member living in another century
posted
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E:
quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: The uniformly accepted version has to be what comes out of Lo3W. That is what DiDio and Johns have decided thay are going to run with. If that doesn't sell there won't be a fourboot there will be nothing.
So it is up to Legion fandom - irrespective of their personal favorite version of the Legion - to get behind Adventure Comics and support it until the Legion take it over or get a new series.
It is the only way. DC aren't going to give the Legion a series because a few Legion Worlders write to Dan DiDio (though letters to DC can't harm the case). They are going to give the Legion a series because Adventure sells more than a b-rater like Conner Kent can justify.
To hell with that. I'll buy Adventure if it pleases me to do so and for no other reason. I'm not going to have DiDio playing hardball with me. It wasn't me who got the Legion into this mess. What if Adventure is a terrible comic--should I still buy it then? If I do buy it, does that mean I like it that the Legion only has a backup? Does it mean that I'm a big fan of Superboy II? Does it mean that I'm supporting the Legion getting their own title? Who's to say? DC's going to do whatever they want to do. The ball's in their court, not ours, and I'm not accepting custody of it no matter how much I like the Legion. The guy's got a lot of nerve.
I respect your right to buy whatever you decide. You earn your money and you choose what to invest it in. But all I will add is that if Legion fandom had taken that approach whan the Action back-ups started or when the Legion became an occasional back-up in Superboy, we wouldn't be having this debate because the Legion would have died them.
If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well.
From: Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I was part of that Legion Fandom back when the Legion a back-up, and yes, I wrote letters and bought 5 issues of each issue....however...I only paid .25 per issue and not $4.00 when there is a recession going on!!
From: San Francisco | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: So it is up to Legion fandom - irrespective of their personal favorite version of the Legion - to get behind Adventure Comics and support it until the Legion take it over or get a new series.
Oh, the hell with that. I'm not going to be extorted into paying $4 a month for bad 8-page Legion stories, just on the basis of D.. D....'s vague promises that there might be another Legion title someday. That's extortion and he knows it.
-------------------- Aaron Kashtan/Sir Tim Drake
From: Providence, RI | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: To hell with that. I'll buy Adventure if it pleases me to do so and for no other reason. I'm not going to have DiDio playing hardball with me. It wasn't me who got the Legion into this mess. What if Adventure is a terrible comic--should I still buy it then? If I do buy it, does that mean I like it that the Legion only has a backup? Does it mean that I'm a big fan of Superboy II? Does it mean that I'm supporting the Legion getting their own title? Who's to say? DC's going to do whatever they want to do. The ball's in their court, not ours, and I'm not accepting custody of it no matter how much I like the Legion. The guy's got a lot of nerve.
Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.
As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).
-------------------- Aaron Kashtan/Sir Tim Drake
From: Providence, RI | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Suppose there's only one restaurant in town that serves hamburgers. Suppose you go to that restaurant every day at lunchtime and order a hamburger. One day, however, the manager tells you that you can't have a whole hamburger; you can only have a quarter of a hamburger and three quarters of a baloney sandwich. The price for this is slightly higher than the price for a whole hamburger. And suppose the manager then says, "Someday we might allow you to buy a whole hamburger again, but only if you and all your friends come in here every day and order three quarters of a baloney sandwich and one quarter of a hamburger. Oh, and it's your fault that we took whole hamburgers off the menu."
Why would you go back to that restaurant, even if it was the only restaurant in town that had hamburgers? Wouldn't you just find something else to eat?
-------------------- Aaron Kashtan/Sir Tim Drake
From: Providence, RI | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Suppose there's only one restaurant in town that serves hamburgers. Suppose you go to that restaurant every day at lunchtime and order a hamburger. One day, however, the manager tells you that you can't have a whole hamburger; you can only have a quarter of a hamburger and three quarters of a baloney sandwich. The price for this is slightly higher than the price for a whole hamburger. And suppose the manager then says, "Someday we might allow you to buy a whole hamburger again, but only if you and all your friends come in here every day and order three quarters of a baloney sandwich and one quarter of a hamburger. Oh, and it's your fault that we took whole hamburgers off the menu."
Why would you go back to that restaurant, even if it was the only restaurant in town that had hamburgers? Wouldn't you just find something else to eat?
Exactly!
Although: it's only our worst-case-scenario that the other three-quarters are a baloney sandwich. For all we know, it could turn out to be filet mignon. And the one-quarter hamburger could turn out to be a like a deluxe Angus beef burger or whatever. Let's not let our pessimism run too far ahead of our information.
quote:I respect your right to buy whatever you decide. You earn your money and you choose what to invest it in. But all I will add is that if Legion fandom had taken that approach whan the Action back-ups started or when the Legion became an occasional back-up in Superboy, we wouldn't be having this debate because the Legion would have died them.
If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well.
A couple of things about that: my understanding is that the Legion wasn't switched to Action for any good reason, but out of editorial whim. Yes? Then there was no more reason for the fans to indulge DC in its silly decisions back then than there is now.
We don't know what would have happened back then if Legion fandom hadn't done what they did. I think it's more likely than not that the Legion would have come back in some form anyway.
But circumstances are different now anyway. Now, the Legion has a fifty-year history as one of DC's (overall) more successful titles. It's just silly to be treating them as if they were Jaime Reyes, especially considering a) the response to the Johns retroboot, b) the sales level of the threeboot, early on, and c) DC Editorial's role in the change to the sales level of the threeboot, later on.
DiDio's just being silly. He already has all the good reasons he needs to publish a Legion comic. If that's not good enough for him, I don't know what more a bad reason (by which I mean panicky Legion fans buying multiple copies of a comic book they don't want) would do.
quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.
As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).[/QB]
Whilst I would agree it was his decision to cancel the Threeboot I do not think that is the same thing as being his fault. It was always my understanding the the Threeboot was cancelled for sales reasons, not that the Threeboot was not selling just that the quasi-original Legion being offered up in Action and Lo3W seems to be selling substantially better.
If this is the case then cancelling the Threeboot was the correct thing to do from a business standpoint as potentially DC/Warner stand to make more money from the Johnsboot than the Threeboot; and this, as much as we may not like it, is really what Dan Didio is employed to do.
I would also rather there was a new ongoing series instead of a series of back-ups but it probably makes far more sense to test the water like this than run straight into a new series featuring all new characters. (actually this is not true I would rather have issue 63 of TMK or 39 of The Legion or 51 of Threeboot but none of these seem that likely
Fine do not buy Adventure Comics (or anything else) if the stories are no good or do not appeal to you but not buying the book just because you do not happen to like someone who, in theory, is only peripherally involved seems to be a little short sighted, but obviously it is your choice to make.
From: Dorset, England | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Exactly. It was his own damn fault that the previous Legion series was cancelled. Its sales were perfectly fine and its cancellation was not due to a lack of fan support.
As usual, D.. D.... is trying to blame us for things that are his fault. This is one reason why I'm determined not to buy any comic book with his name on it (or even type his name).
Whilst I would agree it was his decision to cancel the Threeboot I do not think that is the same thing as being his fault. It was always my understanding the the Threeboot was cancelled for sales reasons, not that the Threeboot was not selling just that the quasi-original Legion being offered up in Action and Lo3W seems to be selling substantially better.
If this is the case then cancelling the Threeboot was the correct thing to do from a business standpoint as potentially DC/Warner stand to make more money from the Johnsboot than the Threeboot; and this, as much as we may not like it, is really what Dan Didio is employed to do.[/QB]
Okay. Fine. That's not a plan that I particularly care for, but it's perfectly understandable. So where's our comic book about the Johnsboot? If a Johnsboot comic would be so much more successful than a threeboot comic, then where is it? Can't make money on a comic you're not publishing!
cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
(snip)
Silver Age Lad:
quote:...If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well...
Dear Mr. Didio,
Please return to charging whatever you charged for a single issue back in the early days of *Adventure Comics* and then we'll talk.
Sincerely,
cleome
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
A few more random thoughts about DiDio and whither the Legion and all that jazz:
I have the feeling SOMEONE at DC (maybe not DD, but someone), has a pretty clear idea where they want the Legion to go and how to get there. And I have the feeling that the hitch is that "looooonnnnngggg lead time" problem that really seems to be hampering virtually all of DC's new product (and not-new product, for that matter). From this perspective, I think the backup feature (I refuse to call an 8-page story a co-feature. A co-feature would be 1/2 the total page count!) may be a way of keeping the product out there while schedules align. I have no proof of this, just the sense that 1) Johns wants to be involved in the Legion, 2) Johns has a REALLY busy schedule already and 3) it's increasingly hard to find artists who can deliver books on time, let alone books with a literal legion of characters.
Second, and this is something I have to push everyday for people at work to remember, we are in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the 1930s. One of the things that makes it so bad is that (American) consumers have finally stopped spending beyond their means. At the same time, a lot of commodity/input prices are still relatively high (much lower than last summer, but still much higher than a few years ago). This has to be hitting comics, and raising the threshold for a sustainable sales level. It may be why we are seeing more limited series -- They have to represent fewer long-term commitment costs in down market. In light of this, it may very well be a vote of confidence to have the Legion in a backup.
Nothing I write here should indicate that I disagree with the general disgust and anger at the gross mismanagement of the concept for the past generation.
-------------------- ...but you don't have a moment where you're sitting there staring at a table full of twenty-five characters with little name signs that say, "Hi, my superpower is confusing you!"
From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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Silver Age Lad
Part-time member living in another century
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: (snip)
Silver Age Lad:
quote:...If we want DC to repeat history, then Legion fandom has to as well...
Dear Mr. Didio,
Please return to charging whatever you charged for a single issue back in the early days of *Adventure Comics* and then we'll talk.
Sincerely,
cleome
I find this comparison on prices puzzling. costs of all commodities have risen with inflation and comic book pricing is no worse than most.
Would you not buy a house or a loaf of bread because it isn't the same price as the 1960s? Of course not. Try living in the UK where DC prices are 50 to 100 percent more expensive than the US.
I understand the frustration with DiDio's apparent attitude but the phrase cutting your nose of to spite your face springs to mind. "I don't like DiDio's treatment of the Legion so I'll boycott Legion books and prove him right".
Great tactics.
From: Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
(snip)
Silver Age Lad:
quote:...Would you not buy a house or a loaf of bread because it isn't the same price as the 1960s?..
It's just my way of kidding on the square. Anyway, I don't know much about purchasing power in other parts of the world, but around here: There is a definite difference in how much purchasing power most people my age have compared to most people who were our age back in the 1960s and 1970s.
So, technically, I could afford to spend five dollars on a comic book in the literal sense. I could walk out of the house and do it right now. However, life isn't like it was two-plus decades ago. I have other financial responsibilities and commitments, and the relative value of disposable income would be different than it once was even without some pretty formidable outside factors.
Y'know, it's not as if I'm specifically taking my mad out on DC. I can't afford anyone's comics right now. I can't afford books or CDs, either, and it doesn't matter whose they are. If it's not coming from the library or perhaps somebody's yard sale, or if it's not available online, I won't be reading it. That's just the way it is.
It does, however, seem to me that if large companies want people to maintain their hobbies in a bad economic climate, one of the first things they'd want to consider is how to make that hobby cheaper to maintain.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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