Five years ago, I'd be in an uproar. But I have a feeling that they'll go back eventually...they always do.
The point of the web-shooters (besides a cool ability) is to show off Peter's scientific genius...which is very central to the character. Of course, this has been relatively ignored for the last few years, which bothers me. Hopefully they'll get back to that (and the web-shooters) eventually.
The organic webbing really serves no purpose for the character himself, and only makes the series more like the movies. I'm sure the sales team thought this was great, while the fans just roll their eyes.
Of course, doing this weeks after kicking Gwen's dead body and spitting on the legacy of Gwen and Peter's relationship makes the organic webbing decision seem less important.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Cobie, did you hear who was taking over the writing and art on Spider-Man? Mark Waid and Mike Wieringo are switching from FF to Spidey.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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Hm...Waid on Spidey? I'll take it with some reservation and give Waid a chance...if he can capture Peter like he did Wally West, it has the potential to be great.
If Waid can give the love and respect of Peter's past like he's done with other comics (Legion not being one of them), then he'll definately have me won over.
Wieringo has done Spidey before, and done it very well (Sensational Spider-Man, was it?). I have a feeling he'll be able to draw good poses for Spidey in action, but I wonder how well he'll be able to make the villians look sinister. I bet his MJ is nice on the eyes though
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well, at this point, I'm going to post a few more reviews of Spidey's history. I hope no one minds, as they are fun for me and I hope some people still read them.
But nothing would please me more to see a continuing discussion on the current Spider-Man series, from Ultimate Spider-Man to Amazing Spider-Man to anything with Spidey in them.
So I hope my reviews don't break up the flow of any discussion too much.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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The second half of the Hobgoblin Saga occurred after #267 and culminated in #292. As I’ve stated before, the Hobgoblin is my favorite of all of Spidey’s villains, and this era is one of my favorite for Spidey stories. #267 makes a good break, as the the next ten or so issues were really just one-shots in ASM and were relatively crappy. Afterwards, the Hobgoblin Saga exploded again in 1984, and continued to pick up steam all the way up until it’s mega-conclusion.
Now, I know that the real identity of the Hobgoblin got screwed up as the writers came and went in the series and that things didn’t turn out as well as Marvel wished it did. Peter David himself, who finally wrote the big revelation in #292 has made numerous mention of the problems he had with the editors in writing the story. Still, my love for this period jades my view of it and I still enjoy these issues immensely.
- A few quick stories from #267-275- not much to comment on here, other than wow, that was a bad year for Spidey stories. Nothing good at all there really, other than an appearance by Slyde, who with a grand total of (3) appearances ever, gains obscure Spidey villain status.
- The Return of the Hobgoblin and the Rose- finally, Amazing Spider-Man got back to the more interesting storylines that had been running through it for the past half decade and the Hobgoblin and the Rose returned with a vengeance. In the time that passed since we saw them, they had made major moves in taking over a large portion of organized crime in NYC. Their return appearances here are very good, and remind me why I loved these two characters so much. We also see Varley and Johnson, the Rose’s two main thugs back in action, and see right off that both the Hobgoblin and the Rose have every intention of betraying each other as soon as possible.
- Flash, Betty, Ned and Sha Shan- after some crazy characterization in PPTSS a few months earlier, all of these characters make the change from PPTSS to ASM and show up. And just like over there, a serious “What in the holy hell?” situation emerges, as Betty starts cheating on Ned with Flash (who is dating Sha Shan). Even more, Ned starts acting like a raving lunatic as he begins to suspect and Flash and Sha start having almost brawl-like fights.
- Of course, it’s obvious now why they moved the characters over, and it was pretty obvious then too. These four came to ASM for the wrap-up of the Hobgoblin Saga, which the editors must have decided should end soon. Thus, the writer began making obvious references to Ned that make him a prime suspect to be the Hobgoblin. The problem with that is that as the series went on, it became too likely—there was really no one else who the Hobgoblin would be, as Peter David would see when he came on for one issue in #292. A further problem is that once again, someone that Peter knows outside his life as Spider-Man suddenly ends up being a mystery villain! But, more on that at the end of this part.
- The other main candidate to be the Hobgoblin is Lance Bannon, the rival photographer at the Bugle. As time had progressed, his girlfriend Amy Powell pretty much left the series soon after she arrived, although Lance remained. However, he was rarely used other than to show up as a rival photog or to be a possible suspect to be the Hobgoblin.
- Silver Sable- Another cool character introduced is Silver Sable, who becomes part of the Spider-Man section of the Marvel U. I think she is written best when her intentions are not purely good, and it’s obvious that there is a monetary element to her motivation. Otherwise, she seems to much like a cute female European version of Nick Fury and SHIELD. Still, her story (and the Foreigner’s story) were pretty enjoyable.
- The Hobgoblin and Flash Thompson- the Hobgoblin Saga heats up as Hobby returns and does battle with Spidey once more. We the effects of the serum have truly taken hold—the Hobgoblin’s greatest fear of going crazy like Osbourn has become a reality, as he became more and more psycho and more and more obsessed with Spider-Man. At the end of this tale, Spidey fights the Hobgoblin, beats him and unmasks him to reveal…Flash!
Of course, the subplots leading up to this in Peter’s life are more important than what was happening in Spidey’s. We see Ned has learned the truth about Flash and Betty, and Sha Shan leaves Flash, after he hits her (yup, Flash actually hits Sha Shan…sad, I know). The gradual destruction of Spidey’s supporting cast, an ongoing theme since #90, picks up full speed here. Sha Shan exits and we never see her again, and Flash is now being blamed for being the Hobgoblin. Combined with Ned making Spidey’s Spider-sense go off, this makes Ned seem like the most likely candidate for the mystery villain.
- The Sinister Syndicate- a cool story that gets jumbled into this whole mess is a two-parter that pits Spidey against a whole bunch of his old villains: the Rhino, the Beetle, Speed Demon, Boomerang and Hydro-Man. He fights alongside Silver Sable, and then in an unlikely twist, the Sandman, who is reforming! This is a fun story and a good read…what super-heroes stories should be like. The villains are all great and are all menacing—easily beaten by Spidey but not too easily. The idea of Sandman going strait is tough though, since I always thought he was one of the more menacing Silver Age Marvel villains, especially since he fought Spidey and the Torch. At this point though, very few villains had ever really gone strait, so it was an interesting idea. As the two last decades have come and gone though, this theme has been done to death (Silver Age villain goes strait, kind of a pseudo hero that helps good guy now), and I prefer the Sandman as a bad guy. Besides, Spider-Man has Prowler (who I love), Rocket Racer, Will O’ Wisp and a whole bunch of others that fill this role.
- Mary Jane- throughout these stories, Mary Jane, like JJJ and Aunt May, remained a central part of Spidey’s cast. In the recent periods (my other review sections), she had regained her role as a major player in the cast although the writers held off on any romance between the two. Recently, she had just admitted to Peter that she knew he was Spider-Man and the two had a real heart to heart, giving her character almost a 180 makeover. To be honest, I never even really liked MJ up until this point, but that was the point of the whole thing—to make MJ likeable to Spidey fandom. To some degree, it worked. MJ became central to Peter’s life as the only person to know he was Spider-Man (well, Matt Murdock too), and she grew to dominate the series among the supporting cast (as in she appeared more than any other).
Because of this, the romance that the writers held off on for so long began to manifest itself without any push it seems. It almost seemed to rise naturally out of the progressing events in Spidey’s life, an it makes sense that the two, after growing so close and sharing such close secrets would fall in love once again. Unlike the first time Peter and MJ were together, I like this period. Anyone who knows my preferences know that I think she’s no Gwen, but the new likeable Mary Jane is a welcome addition to Peter’s life. After all, Peter’s lovelife had been all bust since that final page in #121.
- Scourge- there is a cool Scourge crossover during this time, in which Scourge planned on assassinating Flash because he thought it was the Hobgoblin. I like how this type of pseudo crossover weaves into Spidey’s existing continuity.
- Jack O’Lantern frees Flash Thompson- The Spidey/Hobgoblin/Rose/Ned/Flash saga becomes more complicated with the arrival of Jack O’Lantern, breaks Flash out of jail. This nicely sets up the Hobgoblin/Jack O’ Lantern feud that would ensue for the next ten issues. I see Jack O’ Lantern as little more than a second rate Hobgoblin. That’s probably why when Hobgoblin I dies and Jack takes over as Hobgoblin II, I kind of lost my fire in seeing a Hobgoblin appearance (as did apparently the rest of Spidey fandom). Part of me always wished Hobby could give him one good beating during these issues (although he kind of does) and maybe even kill him off.
- Gang War- When I was about 12 years old, this was my favorite story to read. I would read all #284 issues of ASM, all of PPTSS and Web, just to get to this point. I have an incredible fondness for this story, running from #284-288, because the huge amount of villains fighting each other with Spider-Man in the middle seemed so exciting. Looking at it now, I still find it exciting and a fun read, even though the ending wasn’t much compared to how it began. Still, there are some cool sequences:
o An all out Gang War breaks out in NYC, between Hammerhead, Silvermane, the Rose, the Blue Boys (new group) and the various people working for them. This directly connects to Kingpin being taken down in Daredevil during “Born Again” and his organization up for grabs. The Arranger, the Kingpin’s top man, is also introduced at this time, and surprisingly, the Arranger plays a key part in the next decades worth of stories (mainly b/c the Kingpin had become mainly Daredevil’s foe now). o Hobgoblin in his glory, battling Spidey, battling others, working with Jack O’ Lantern but knowing full well that he would soon betray him, and then quickly disposing of Silvermane. Silverman, it seems, never dies though in his robot body, as this is like one of four times I’ve seen him killed off (he does have an interesting history though, from the Tablet saga to reappearing in Cap, to being paralyzed in the Green Goblin III saga, etc.) o Punisher enters the fray. When the Punisher appeared at the end of the first part, it was one of his best entrances ever. Punisher-mania had really just started after his first mini, although it hadn’t kicked into high gear yet. Some good scenes b/t him and Spidey (I always like him better as a member of Spidey’s cast). o The Rose revealed- We finally find out who the Rose is in pretty nonchalant way, as Richard Fisk is shown talking to a girl with his Rose mask in the other room. So, the Kingpin’s son is the Rose, which is something that many people (myself included) had guessed. o The Rose kills a cop, we meet his partner and then pretty much exits the scene. The end of the Rose saga comes pretty unexpectedly during Gang War (which is really the reason it was written), as he kills a cop and begins having second thoughts about the whole thing. We also meet Alfredo, his partner, which comes kind of out of left-field and we learn that there is more going on than we thought. The Hobgoblin/Rose partnership is officially over, and the Rose appears to be retired. o The Saga ends- Finally, it ends, with Kingpin coming back, killing everyone (though no one important, like Hammerhead), the heroes prevail. The ending always seemed like kind of a dud to me.
[ December 11, 2006, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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After Gang War, the chaotic villain madness seemed to be coming to an end. The Hobgoblin Saga was just about finished, with just a few loose ends to wrap up, which they did:
- The Death of the Hobgoblin- In #289, the mystery if finally over, and the identity of the Hobgoblin is finally revealed: Ned Leeds! It had gotten fairly obvious by this point, and to complicate matters, Ned had just died in the Wolverine/Spidey crossover! WTF? Enter Peter David, to try and fix things, and thus, we end up with issue 289. It seems Marvel considered backing out and making Hobby the Foreigner (which would have been a MAJOR mistake, as it doesn’t fit either character), but after rereading his appearances, David could see there was only one real choice to be Ned, as everyone else had official alibis. It would take Roger Stern, 20 years later, to come back and fix his creation, to give a real surprise reveal to the Hobgoblin identity.
But that was 20 years later, and in 1986, the Hobgoblin was Ned. And he was dead. Strangely, this anti-climatic ending fits for me, since it’s all I’ve ever known it as, but it marks a kind of end to an era for me in my Spidey collection. At this point, the real late 80’s/90’s/Image artists/mega Marvel marketing craze it hits, and the subplots from the early 80’s come to an end. The Hobgoblin saga ends, with nowhere near the climax as it should of, considering the buildup from #238, and from this point forward, Peter’s cast continues to be slowly destroyed. For example, Ned is dead, and while Flash is cleared at this point, but Betty now appears to have gone a little nuts after what happened. She pretty much exits Peter’s life now for quite awhile. We also now have it that throughout Spidey’s life, he’s known people who were super-villians in his life as Peter: Norman Osbourn, Harry Osbourne, Prof. Warren, Ned Leads, Liz Allen’s brother the Molten Man, etc. Now, most are related to the Goblin legacy that haunts Peter’s life (I see the Jackal as part of that), which when looked at like that, is an interesting and tragic theme.
Also, as I said, Jack O’ Lantern officially becomes Hobgoblin II, but never really recaptures the magic of the first one. Basically, he’s a common mercenary/thug. The magic of the Hobgoblin was that he was a mystery, as well as a normal man growing continually more evil and corrupted by power. In addition, he continued to weave himself into the already existing Spider-Man mythos, tying himself more to Peter and his supporting cast and their history as he went.
I should note though, that Roger Stern would one day come back, 20 years later, and add some additions to the story of Hobgoblin I that really made it all the more enjoyable and brought back a lot of this magic.
- Web of Spider-Man #31- the origin of the Rose. With Flash cleared, Ned revealed as the Hobgoblin and killed and the Gang War over, most of the ongoing subplots were cleared up. However, there was still the question of the Rose, which this random issue of WoS answered a month or so later. In it, we learn the origins of the Kingpin’s son becoming the Rose, Alfredo and his ties and the further developed origin of Ned Leeds as the Hobgoblin. This issue definitely exists to try and iron out the kinks left over from the explanation in #289, although it creates a few more by its inconsistencies. As much as Ned as the Hobgoblin works in places, it just doesn’t work at all in others.
From this point forward, we would see the increased (since it was already present IMO) trend of Peter's supporting cast continually being dismantled. Following the Hobgoblin saga, Betty was gone, Ned was dead, Sha Shan was gone, and we hardly ever see Lance Bannon again. Additionally, Harry and Liz Osbourn, now with a son, hardly ever appeared anymore either, and were effectively eliminated from the reaccuring cast (they showed up from time to time). In ASM in particulur, the next 100 or so issues hardy ever involved any members of the supporting cast besides MJ, Aunt May and Jonah Jameson. The other two titles would continue to focus on these members, although the list of supporting cast members continued to shrink.
[ June 06, 2005, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Major Changes in the Life of Spider-Man (ASM #290-292)
After the Hobgoblin Saga ended, an even bigger change hit Spidey’s life:
#292- Peter propses to Mary Jane. Again, it seemed to almost come out of nowhere, with Peter suddenly getting back with MJ, but then: Peter makes a HUGE step and proposes to MJ, again! This time though, it seems like it would genuinely work, although it still feels strangely sudden.
#293-294- Mary Jane says yes. After a quick story with the Spider-Slayers and the son of Spencer Smythe (Alistair Smythe), MJ says yes, after some soul-searching on her home, by confronting her sister (who we saw in her big secret issue a few months back).
Annual #18 (is that right?)- the wedding of MJ and Peter. All in all, this was a pretty sweet issue. Mainly, the scenes with May, JJJ, Harry, Flash, Liz and the rest made it great. Even Peter and MJ were sweet in it, and it was a happy scene. The idea that Peter and Mary Jane could live happily ever after is appealing, as is the idea that after Peter had gone through so much, and suffered through such pain, there was a light at the end of the road. However there were two main problems:
1. Peter’s life didn’t end at this issue, and we now see his continuing adventures as a married man. By being married, this changes the main dynamic of the series. Now Peter *has* an ally who knows his secret and is there for him, and is no longer quite as tragic. Also, being married takes away a major portion of the drama for his love life. Granted, a fight with the spouse is still drama, but it’s not the same when we know that MJ is his loving and dutiful wife. Plus, the writers have to make sure MJ stays likeable—any fighting about her wanting to make Peter quit makes her come off as a shrew, leaving the readers (even those who totally understand her position) thinking “Damn! Why can’t MJ just back off and let him save lives? What a selfish jerk!”. The marriage, although interesting because it follows the logical progression of Peter’s life, takes away much of the earlier dynamic. Now, after a long night of getting the crapped kicked out of him by the Scorpion, he can come home to his loving (and hot!) wife, who understands him, where previously, he had to come home and explain to his g/f why he was out, get in a fight and then wonder if things would ever work out for him.
2. This doesn’t really relate to the marriage, per se, but it relates to the direction the writers were going re: MJ being a famous super-model. Bad, bad idea. It just doesn’t ring true. We saw it coming already with the honey-moon in France (with the Puma ), and then go from there. With MJ famous, that kind of sheds a lot of light on Peter Parker. Plus, ol’ hard-luck Parker isn’t exactly hard up for luck with a super-model wire at home, that just happens to understand his need to battle the Rhino. It just becomes strange to see MJ become a celebrity—ironically, it feels more unrealistic than Electro attacking.
Next: McFarlane! Venom! The Return to the Old Costume!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Heh, my thoughts on the Hobgoblin stuff can be a bit wordy and long-winded. Sorry :blush: It’s my favorite era after all. Anway:
The McFarlane Era (ASM #298-228?)
After Peter and MJ’s wedding, a whole new was ushered in. Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man was changed to just “The Spectacular Spider-Man”, and both that title and Web of Spider-Man went in a whole new direction. In fact, the comics of this era look noticeably different all of a sudden: the paper was different, the art-styles had changed, the very atmosphere of the Marvel U was different. Fans during this era will know what I’m talking about. The late 80’s/early 90’s had arrived. The X-Men exploded, Punisher mania began, Ghost Rider was right around the corner, the great runs of the main Marvel books were coming to an end…
As for Amazing Spider-Man, it got an artist who perhaps was the hottest artist of the entire period: Todd McFarlane. Although controversial and what not, no one can deny that his art on ASM was amazing, stunning and just downright beautiful. His art definitely defined an era, and brought with it many imitators.
The return to the old Costume- the first thing McFarlane did (no idea whose idea it was) was restore Spidey to his classic costume and get rid of the black one. Now, I use to hate the black one, but have come to like it over the years, mainly b/c I know that he eventually switched back. Still, the beautiful covers by McFarlane look so much prettier when seeing Spidey in his red and blue costume. His renditions of the Green Goblin, the Lizard, the Scorpion, etc. are absolutely stunning too.
Venom- Even an old time Silver Age Spidey villain fan like me has to appreciate the power of Venom in the 90’s. To be honest, I’ve never really cared for Venom, although a lot of that stems from my Dad’s dislike of both Venom and Carnage, since he preferred the Silver Age villains too. In hindsight, he is a good Spidey villain, in that he’s different from the rest, and if for no other purpose, finally solves the issue of the symbiotic costume and restores Peter to his classic costume. There are two main problems with Venom in the late 80’s/90’s:
1) he is way, way, way overused. He basically shows up every ten issues from #300-#400. 2) He represents the height of the Image era ‘overdoing’ it with their art. Although not so much McFarlane, Larsen really over does it in terns of his teeth, his tongue, “I’m gonna eat your brains”, etc.
McFarlane does the classic villains- McFarlane’s stories, with David Michelline writing them, were very tight, good super-hero stories. Although they weren’t anything major, they were a lot of fun, and we were able to see Todd’s rendition of: Rhino, Scorpion, Lizard, the Black Fox (who I get a kick out of), and then a whole bunch more in a big crossover with Captain America and others (which wasn’t that good, but the art was nice).
The Hobgoblin versus the Green Goblin (and done by McFarlane too!)- In the “Inferno” crossover, evil demons scourged New York City and many heroes pitched in. This little nugget of a story is seamlessly thrown into the mix: Harry Osbourn, in a now rare appearance, shows up and puts on his father’s old Green Goblin costume to actually *help* NYC. And then, he battles the Hobgoblin! So, it’s actually Green Goblin II versus Hobgoblin II, but with Todd McFarlane drawing, it sure looks good. Of course, this opens up a ton of other questions, like what the hell is Harry thinking?, will this jog back his missing memories of being Green Goblin II?, does the Hobgoblin know the secret to the connection b/t the Osbournes and the Goblin legacy?, etc.—all of which are neither addressed nor answered. Oh well. Sure looks good!
Styx and Stone- for some reason, I like these two guys. They are undoubtedly the pinnacle of throw away 90’s villains, with heavy artillery, a dumb moniker and absolutey no chance in hell of beating Forbush Man, let alone Spidey, but they’re fun. I wouldn’t mind seeing them more often in the big villain fight scenes (you know, the ones that seem to happen every ten months now, with Spidey surrounded by all his foes).
The guy that stalks MJ- for some reason, I can’t remember his name off-hand…a first so far for me on this timeline. The story with the guy who stalks MJ and owns their apartment building is around this time. I’m not sure if others liked it, but I found it largely not so memorable. Peter and MJ being evicted on Christmas fits well into Spidey tradition though. It’s interesting to note that the apartments of Spider-Man, which were once a big part of the mythos, had become highly unmemorable by this time. Pete and MJ’s next one, with the sky-light is a little more, but they never had the same pizzazz that his old 70’s one with the giant Indian statue did.
And of course—Holy Moley, MJ is freakin’ hot!!- McFarlane did something amazing that virtually no comic creator had ever dared to do before: he actually changed MJ’s hairstyle! Were the fans outraged? Have you seen her? McFarlane quite suddenly had you believing MJ was a super-model, as he drew probably the hottest comic book characters since John Romita Sr. Like Jim Lee in X-Men, he was blowing people away, and suddenly, MJ looked really different, but kind of the same. But she looked really good. For the rest of the 90’s, MJ’s hairstyle would continue to change, and she gained a distinctly different look for this era—showing that it truly was a different time for comics.
On a related note, McFarlane also made Peter totally ripped and chiseled out of stone, so I guess he was equally as hot. Not bad for the bookworm. This had been gradual for the last 100 issues or so, but after McFarlane, the door was blown wide-open: Spider-Man had one of the best builds in comics.
All in all, McFarlane had a good run. By issue #328 or so, he was moved off of Amazing Spider-Man, because his popularity had grown so immense, so potent, that Marvel was sure he could carry his own comic, and could definitely make a killing on his own Spider-Man comic. Thus, the forth Spider-Man comic was born. In the meantime, while Todd McFarlane set a new trend on ASM, SS and WoS were undergoing a different but equally fun route.
[ June 06, 2005, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: random thoughts on your chronology: -- The Prowler and White Tiger occupy that soft spot in my heart that any character does when you remember first seeing them as a kid and thinking "coooool!" -- I remember liking Cloak & Dagger, but it wasn't til Leonardi did that mini that I was hooked. He totally fulfilled the graphic potential that their visuals provided (and that cloak! Spawn's a rip-off, imo). -- Though I usually enjoy the Punisher more in "Daredevil" (cuz c'mon, he should really not stand a chance against Spidey), I really enjoyed the Miller Annual(?) with Doc Ock. -- I loved the Hobgoblin's early appearances! I especially remember after the first fight seeing Hobbie stagger home completely drained and amazed by Spider-Man's strength. You rarely see the villain limp home feeling like they just got the crap kicked out of them. I also loved the issue (by Romita/Jansen?) with the battle in Hobbie's battle wagon. -- The book was one of my favs around the time of the black costume. Who did the art for those, was it Frenz? -- Spectacular was definitely the secondary book. Partly because of Milgrom - I think he either drew or was in heavy handed inking phase and I thought his stuff was horrific during that period (Secret Wars II -- pure drek). They also had the Spot and while the Answer wasn't bad, his costume certainly was. -- I liked the Black Cat and thought she brought something interesting to Spidey's love-life (for once it was *Spidey's* lovelife, not Peter Parker's. Hated that new costume she briefly wore though. -- The issue where MJ discloses her tortured history was one of my fav issues of that era. -- Puma -- very cool despite the unfortunate name (c'mon, how can you not think of sneakers!?).
A *very* late reply, but some thoughts:
Drake, it seems you have a lot of the same tastes as me! As I wrote in those huge reviews, I love the Prowler, am a big White Tiger fan, and think the MJ issue is one of the best ever in Spidey's history (definately her best moment). Cloak & Dagger, my Hobgoblin favorite issues, the Black Cat and of course the Romita and then Frenz art....all just great stuff.
I hope you, Matlock, and others continue to post your thoughts on current Spidey stuff and on various points in his past!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I'm happy to see you get this thread back on track Cobie!!!
I'll let you in on a hidden shame: I traded all those ASM McFarlane issues away years ago for I don't know, Magic cards or some crap. The only one I kept was when Harry put on the Goblin suit to try to defend his family. How dumb am I? When was the last time I played Magic, you might ask? Well, I met my wife in late 97. That was pretty much that.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I'm glad you decided to pick up on this thread Cobie! It's fun getting all nostalgic about Spidey's past. Not to derail your timeline reviews, but what are you talking about regarding Hobgoblin and Ned Leeds? Did they retcon that out or something?? I remember being completely let down by the whole Wolverine/Spider-Man crossover and that anti-climactic reveal of Hobie's identity!
I think I lost interest in Spider-Man around Gang War but being brought back by MacFarlane - following him from his run on the Hulk. He really was exciting at the time (though I lost interest in him by the time he debuted his adjective-less Spider-Man title). I also liked the Solo appearance during this era and Venom was awesome when he first appeared - he was a genuine threat to Spidey and Peter Parker. But of course the overexposure came soon enough to ruin him.
[ February 16, 2005, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Drake, I hear you on Venom. You know, the story in ASM #300 (1st Venom) is actually really good and really creepy—and excellent first appearance for a major bad guy. But his overexposure did him in—I think it was really Larsen’s tenure that Venom appearances became “Oh, it must be that four month period of the year where they do another Venom story”.
Re: Ned and the Hobgoblin:
About 5 years ago, Roger Stern did a mini-series called “Hobgoblin Lives!” that went back into the mystery of Hobgoblin I and changed a few major things, and some could say (I lean towards this) that he ‘fixed’ the mystery of the Hobgoblin.
Basically, we see the ‘original’ Hobgoblin reappear, and that he has not been dead at all! He faked his death and has laid low for the last few years, amassing power and waiting for a good opportunity—he then reemerges and kills off Hobgoblin II (Jason Macendale, the former Jack O’Lantern), for some reason or another (couldn’t wait to kill him anymore?). Suddenly, Spidey realizes that the 1st Hobgoblin never did die and that Ned was completely set up!
So, Betty and Spider-man start trying to solve the mystery of who he really is. We see some old theories brought back up (even that Menken guy who helped run Oscorp, who appeared in exactly 6 panels ever reappears—all b/c some fan thought it might be him in the letters pages during that era! Funny enough, Menken has even later been retconned to have been a member of the Scriers all these years…how’s that for obscure character suddenly getting major backstory?)
Anyway, the original Hobgoblin is back, and it’s not Ned, so Betty (now a bigtime investigative reporter these days) and Spidey hunt him down and it’s revealed that he’s…
SPOILER . . . . . . . Roderick Kingsley! Yes, shocker of all shockers!
In an even more complicated twist, we learn that his brother (now this will be stretching your memory), the one who never said much but always followed him around, was actually the ‘true’ Roderick Kingsley, and that the Roderick we know is actually the criminal brother—masquerading around all these years pretending to be a flamboyant playboy, when actually he’s the insidious mastermind Hobgoblin! Stern then adds in a whole bunch of plot points that show how Kingsley had the resources, etc. to become the Hobster.
We then get an old fashioned awesome Spider-Man/Hobgoblin battle a la 1981! And finally, Spider-Man beats and captures the first Hobgoblin, and Betty knows in her heart that it was never Ned.
Except: four months later, in some Spider-verse crossover, Norman Osbourne helps spring Hobgoblin I from prison (Hobgoblin I and Green Goblin I team-up!)…except we never really see what happens to him as that story kind of twindled. He’s currently on the loose, in hiding, or doing something…but Hobgoblin I lives.
Basically, I like seeing my all-time favorite Spider-Man villains still around and still really dangerous and cool, so I’m happy.
I, um, hope I cleared some of this up…
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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), and then go from there. With MJ famous, that kind of sheds a lot of light on Peter Parker. Plus, ol’ hard-luck Parker isn’t exactly hard up for luck with a super-model wire at home, that just happens to understand his need to battle the Rhino. It just becomes strange to see MJ become a celebrity—ironically, it feels more unrealistic than Electro attacking.
