posted
[Guys, I just used my new Moderator powers to edit this thread's title. I'm sure you will agree that "Coipel and the Thunder God" hasn't been accurate for awhile! It's been bugging me for a while! ]
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: [Guys, I just used my new Moderator powers to edit this thread's title. I'm sure you will agree that "Coipel and the Thunder God" hasn't been accurate for awhile! It's been bugging me for a while! ]
unfortunately. Coipel does some rockin' Asgardians.
but this i looking pretty good, bit cartoony ...
From: Ninja Land | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: ^Looks like they're moving away from Coipel's Thor design and back towards the classic look.
<==Not surprised.
I don't really see it - the pointless glowyness on the cover notwithstanding, it just looks like the same costume in a different art style rather than an actual design change.
At any rate, I think I'll be dropping the main Thor book once Gillen's done. Fraction drove me away from the X-Men long ago, and his Iron Man's been weak of late too.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
Ferry's flattened them out a fair bit - Coipel did the four above his waist as raised metal plates, and the two below as part of the fabric - but he's also done something similar with the scale mail. I don't recall Ferry putting in such details elsewhere though, it's just his style. (It wasn't even a tunic pre-Coipel, after all!)
posted
Meanwhile, Thor #614, the last of Gillen's run (Thor #604-614, plus Siege: Loki and New Mutants v3 #11) came out this week.
It's a slightly odd run - his first three issues were entirely about resetting JMS' last arc for Siege, the next four (originally three) were focused on the supporting cast and couldn't do much of consequence since Thor and all the Asgard-shattering events were Bendis' purview in Siege, and the final four issue arc (inserted AFTER #611 was solicited to be the first Fraction/Ferry issue) draws on the setup of a one-shot and a fill-in issue of an entirely separate title - while Bendis tells a near-irreconcilable story with Hela in Avengers: Prime to boot!
For all that it's been hamstrung by mandates, undercut by Bendis and scattered around though, Gillen's done a decent job with what he had to work with. In particular Tyr, an oft-neglected character, has been brought back into circulation very effectively; the Dísir have been an effective menace in his only "true" arc; he's made BRILLIANT use of Mephisto (Peter Parker could learn something from Thor's treatment of the devil...) and that very last twist with Kelda is something I'm very sorry won't be followed up on.
posted
Something I just posted at the Kirby-L Yahoo group...
In the EARLY episodes, Dr. Don Blake seems to have very little knowledge about Thor, Asgard, etc. Slowly, as the series progresses, he crosses paths with Loki, Odin, The Executioner and the Enchantress (who had a longtime crush on Thor, and seems to have turned to evil initially either out of raging hormones, spurned advances, or whatnot-- or maybe she's just a BAD girl at heart, but he might have "turned to" to the side of good, but he didn't-- JUST as later repeated itself with Balder & Karnilla?).
Only about 3/4ths of the way into Kirby's "2nd" run on the series does Thor suddenly follow the example of several readers and ask, "But, what ever happened to the REAL Don Blake?" This had been a complete NON-ISSUE until several readers wrote in. One of them "explained" the whole thing in detail in a letter that was printed-- in the issue containing the 1ST HALF of the eventual "origin" story. It seems Stan --or Jack???-- took what the reader said and translated it into the comic, VERBATIM. Was it just a coincidence, or was it Stan ONCE AGAIN taking the easy way out, and "giving the readers what they want"-- in this case, giving readers what ONE reader had GIVEN HIM on a silver platter???
The SAME thing happened in CAPTAIN AMERICA. Originally, Cap came home after the end of the War. Then, he retired. Then, he came out of retirement. And then his book was cancelled for the 2nd time.
But then we saw Cap was unfrozen from a block of ice, and according to him, he'd gotten that way JUST BEFORE the end of the war. Now, this could have been faulty memories. But he remembered Bucky getting BLOWN TO BITS! Bucky, who had adventured with him AFTER the war! Was Cap's memories faulty-- or what?
Some reader wrote in suggesting the 1950's Cap may have been someone else. Steve Englehart took that and ran with it. At least, that's what I seem to recall happened.
Meanwhile, The Red Skull-- who had been operating a spy ring in North Africa all thru the 50's-- tackled Spider-Man. SAY WHAT??? In this case, definitely, a reader wrote in saying, "Wait a minute!" The Red Skull was put into gas-induced suspended animation (JUST LIKE BUCK ROGERS!!!!!) shortly before the end of the War (and shortly before Cap was put "on ice"-- but no skates). It was mentioned ON A LETTERS PAGE, years later, that The Red Skull that Spider-Man had fought in ASM ANNUAL #5 was in reality-- you can see this coming, right?-- the 1950's Red Skull! The fake Cap had fought a fake Skull. With a fake Bucky at his side.
This did not "explain" how Cap was still fighting after the war ended. So Roy Thomas-- in the only issue of WHAT IF? to be firmly set in the "real" Marvel Universe-- told how, when the report of Cap & Bucky's death hit Military Intelligence, for the sake of moral, they recruited THE SPIRIT OF '76 (a really, really obscure Marvel hero) to take his place! Not long after, HE ALSO got killed! So a slightly less obscure hero, THE PATRIOT, took HIS place. It was The Patriot (with his own fake Bucky) who adventured after the war, and teamed up with "Golden Girl" (Betty Ross, not Betty White).
Okay, okay... so none of this makes it clear, WHAT did Jack Kirby have in mind? As I said... read the EARLIEST issues in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY. Blake talks and acts if he and Thor are 2 different people... just like Billy Batson & "The World's Mightiest Mortal!" (TRADEMARKS prevent my using his real name...)
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Meanwhile, Thor #614, the last of Gillen's run (Thor #606-614, plus Siege: Loki and New Mutants v3 #11) came out this week.
It's a slightly odd run - his first three issues were entirely about resetting JMS' last arc for Siege, the next four (originally three) were focused on the supporting cast and couldn't do much of consequence since Thor and all the Asgard-shattering events were Bendis' purview in Siege, and the final four issue arc (inserted AFTER #611 was solicited to be the first Fraction/Ferry issue) draws on the setup of a one-shot and a fill-in issue of an entirely separate title - while Bendis tells a near-irreconcilable story with Hela in Avengers: Prime to boot!
For all that it's been hamstrung by mandates, undercut by Bendis and scattered around though, Gillen's done a decent job with what he had to work with. In particular Tyr, an oft-neglected character, has been brought back into circulation very effectively; the Dísir have been an effective menace in his only "true" arc; he's made BRILLIANT use of Mephisto (Peter Parker could learn something from Thor's treatment of the devil...) and that very last twist with Kelda is something I'm very sorry won't be followed up on.
I agree on all counts! This was a very weird run in how the title was so influenced by outside events at Marvel, and yet, it was also quite good despite all of that. I think this will be one of those woefully under-appreciated runs in Thor history (especially if Fraction continues to be a darling of critics for some reason with his upcoming run).
Definitely think the usage of Mephisto was one of the best in a long, long time. Mephisto was once a strait-up Thor enemy in the 1970's, and I like him being so again here. He was written very well.
I haven't read the final issue so I'm not sure about the Kelda twist yet. I can only say I think Gillen's continue use of Kelda, especially how he's had her grow and evolve based on what's happened, has been not only an excellent read, but a benchmark that all creators coming on a series should try to reach (rather than the typical forget everything that's gone before without acknowledging it approach).
Loved the use of Tyr as well. Tyr is a great character in not only Norse mythology but Thor's history (Thor, the Marvel character) who has always remained rather obscure; having him here felt fresh yet very connected to what's come before.
I've also liked how he's used Balder quite a bit. Balder has had this role in different eras but often-times, he's not shown doing much when leading the Asgardians. Here, he is always doing something every issue.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I haven't read the final issue so I'm not sure about the Kelda twist yet. I can only say I think Gillen's continue use of Kelda, especially how he's had her grow and evolve based on what's happened, has been not only an excellent read, but a benchmark that all creators coming on a series should try to reach (rather than the typical forget everything that's gone before without acknowledging it approach).
Something you said in there is going to seem very funny to you once you've read #614, but I won't say what
Speaking generally for now so as not to spoil... Kelda was never a character that was likely to be "reset-buttoned", since she was created for JMS' Thor run, and there was nothing to really reset TO. The closest thing to a reset-button is for her to disappear from the book.
[And looking back at JMS' run... her characterisation was fairly weird. She starts out flirting with Bill for the apparent novelty of it, then it rather abruptly becomes True Love Forever without ever seeing Bill from *her* perspective to show us why...]
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
And on a completely different note, I had cause to read the first few issues of the Jurgens/JRJr run today...
...dear Ćsir are they crap. Not even funny-crap, nor so-bad-they're-good. Just badly dialogued, badly plotted and with art by a guy whose work I really don't like (although I know he haS fans).
How. the. HELL did Jurgens last 79 issues (before he was abruptly cut off for Oeming's Ragnarok)?
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
It gets worse. The first 12 issues are Shakespeare compared to what follows. First a huge retread of Kirby's original Mangog story, then a retread of Simonson's Malekith story and then it gets really bad.
I personally love the JR Jr art but the Jurgens story is tough. I purposely skipped the era when I did a big re-read last year.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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