posted
Reboot, I recall the article though no longer have it on-hand to scan. It was mostly a casual recap of postboot history: the founding up until Violet splitting the teams. I think there might have been a paragraph explaining the reason for the reboot and then general hype at the end for the 20th century adventures. Can't recall if there were any extras or sidebars. Hopefully that helped somehow (and if you already knew what it was about then ... nevermind! What's up?)
There was also a Casting Call a few months later. I recall a few of the choices, mostly 90210 & Party of Five actors. It even had casting jobs for "new Legionnaires" Magno and Sandy Infenro.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Not so much "need a reference" as "curious about something" - was preboot Laurel Gand ever referred to as [having been] "Valorgirl" [pre-5YG] in the comics, or is that a fan coinage to go with the costume?
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
posted
I'm pretty sure she wasn't, beacuse I remember thinking it odd that the young Laurel never received a code name. The closest she got was Tiger Rose, which came later.
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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LK was not intro'd with a codename, but the wat TMK were writing the book, not spelling everything out and filling in all gaps, that does not mean there was not one.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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1- the zero hour reboot: the old legion meet the legionnaires, but they come from a different reality? a new future with young legionnaries? and the old legion?
2-the waid legion is different from the meltzer legion, or not?
main question: 3- how many legion are there? (original one, legionnaires, waid's one and the most recent legion on the jla pages that are the original one... or not?)
-------------------- Ciao by Sensor Kid...from the European Legion Outpost
From: European Legion Outpost | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
1. Around 1992ish, readers of the preboot older LSH were introduced to the SW6 Legion, who basically appeared as if transported right out of Adventure #350 or thereabouts (just before Ferro Lad's death). Keith Giffen's intention was to make readers wonder which version was the "real" Legion, and which were the clones (Valor had found evidence of Dark Circle plans to clone the LSH, and he wondered how far along they'd gotten, even before the SW6 Legion was known of) (the name SW6 came from the Dominators who controlled Earth at the time; they claimed that they had bred this group). Giffen intended the older Legion to have been the clones, but this was never resolved in his day - instead, the End-of-an-Era explanation was that the Time Trapper had sort of splintered off the young Legion while Glorith wasn't looking and placed them in stasis.
2. Yes (I assume by Metzler you mean the Legion from JSA, JLA and Action), very.
3. "Original" itself is open to dispute: one can call everything 1958-1994 as original, or even just the 1958 Legion, or any combo in between (1958-1970ish, 1958-1980ish, 1958-1985/6, 1958-1990). I myself consider everything Preboot to be Original, and 1992-1994 to be a "two Legions" era within that framework.
Reboot and Threeboot are largely Legions unto themselves (although the Reboot LSH of JSA (prev. series) #51 doesn't quite fit, nor does the Brave& Bold Threeboot LSH quite fit the Threeboot Legion of its own series).
The recent JLA/JSA/Action/Countdown Legion is based on the Preboot Legion, but I think pretty much everyone agrees it deviates enough to be categorized off on its own.
Then there is the Silver Age-style Adult Legion, which appeared a couple years ago in Superman/Batman; a grown-up version of the 60s Legion virtually unchanged. They made a number of 1960s appearances, most notably a two-parter in Adventure (circa #354). In 1984 (LSH #300), they were revealed to be one of many alternate universe Legions, but anything goes in DCU these days. I'll bet we'l lsee them again this year.
There was also the 1989-1995ish L.E.G.I.O.N. (which I don't consider to really be Legion, but others do), a late 20th century security force for hire tangentally tied to Legionnaires or some of their ancestors/relations.
We also had alt-reality Legions: Superboy's Legion (presumably the same one used in Another Nail), the Legion of Galactic Guardians of 2099 from the Amalgam universe, the Elseworld legions from the 1994? annuals, Marvel's Imperial Guard, A cross-temporal team whose name I can't recall in Alan Moore's Supreme, a Wildstorm Legion of sorts. There have been several outright parodies as well, and probably been other alt versinos too.
Hope that helps.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: 3. "Original" itself is open to dispute: one can call everything 1958-1994 as original, or even just the 1958 Legion, or any combo in between (1958-1970ish, 1958-1980ish, 1958-1985/6, 1958-1990). I myself consider everything Preboot to be Original, and 1992-1994 to be a "two Legions" era within that framework.
Hope that helps.
Yes I call original all the legion before the Legionnaires' comics... But clones or not clones, they had an history, orignins ecc, so who cloned them, cloned a whole life/universe... or not?
The stasis of the old legion could be ended with the Jsa-jòla legion? I haven't already read this saga... ^-^
-------------------- Ciao by Sensor Kid...from the European Legion Outpost
From: European Legion Outpost | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Legionnaires was both pre- and postboot... let's break it down:
Preboot/Preboot-style (1958-1994, 2006-)
Adventure Comics #247 (1958) - originally original, absolutment. Adventure Comics #247 to Crisis on Infinite Earths (1958-1985/6) - pretty much everyone calls this the "original". After this it starts to fragment a bit.
Crisis on Infinite Earths to LSH v4 #4 (1986-1990) - arguably original. Continues from the "pre-Crisis" team, but with some significant changes ("retcons"). LSH v4 #6 to LSH v4 #61 AND Legionnaires #1-18 (1990-1994) - More changes, but still continued from 1958-1990. Within this, there was a duplicate "young" team running about for a while, some of the new costumes and codenames of which were reused...
Lightning Saga/Superman & LSH (2007-present) - Billed as a continuation of the 1958-1985/6 team. Does not include the 1986-1994 material or any of the other material which wasn't billed as continuations.
Postboot/Reboot/Post-Zero Hour (1994-2004):
Zero issues, LSH v4 #62-125, Legionnaires #19-81, Legion Lost, The Legion #1-38 (1994-2004). New version of the team, not including any of the above (although it reused certain costumes and codenames - though not all - from the earlier issues of Legionnaires, there's no internal connection).
Threeboot (2004-)
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-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by Luca: Yes I call original all the legion before the Legionnaires' comics... But clones or not clones, they had an history, orignins ecc, so who cloned them, cloned a whole life/universe... or not?
The stasis of the old legion could be ended with the Jsa-jòla legion? I haven't already read this saga... ^-^
By 1992, we had the two Legion, one young Teens), one old (30s). Much of their origins took place off-camera so to speak; we only have snippets and intepretations based upon clues; only End of an Era attempts to put some sort of order on that. But End of an Era's explanation was not the creators' intent, and it was only the (or a) Time Trapper's version of events, so for the moment let's ignore it.
If one Legion was cloned, we don't know who. Valor (Mon-El) found evidence the Dark Circle was planning to clone the Legion, but didn't know if they succeeded. The Dominators implied that the young Legion was their creation (or at least their property). Later evidence suggested that the Dominators *found* the young Legion, but was not responsible for thier creation; this throws the likelihood back to the Dark Circle, who were master cloners in the first place.
The Dark Circle as cloners works regardless of whether the young or old Legion were the clones - as long as one accepts the longtime assumption that clones can be artificially aged to replicate their originals (if one takes a more realistic version, that clones are merely an artificial identical twin who will age normally from their date of creation, then the younger Legionnaires would have to be the clones).
If one posits clones, one set of Legionnaires (whether the real of fake ones) were put into suspended animation (thus they did not age) underneath Metropolis. Alternately, if the cloned Legion aged naturally from embryo to teen, then these were not suspended animation chambers but more of a Matrix-movie-like cell; the bodies were nourished while the minds were implanted with the memories of their originals.
Either way, the Legion that would become the young Legion did not experience any of the events between Adventure #352 and Legion volume 4 #19 (when the moon was destroyed, setting into motion the events that would free them), but they had the memories of the earlier Adventure era (whether or not they participated).
Thus, under the clone situation, only the pre-Shaw Lass legionnaires were cloned; not the entire universe.
The time fluctuations just before End of an Era shifted things slightly, I won't go into them unless you want me to.
The version of the Time Trapper in End of an Era claimed that both Legions were real; neither was a clone. It's hard to swollow, especially given all the other things that and other trapers claimed. If so, that suggests he either duplicated all the young Legionnaires, or created a splintered timeline of some sort; only in this interpretation of events could one speculate that an entire universe was duplicated.
I myself would suggest that the Trapper, who was claiming to have duplicated the Legion while Glorith was distracted, would/could not have created an entire universe. I would tewnd to believe it would have been far easier for him to hide the Dark Circle's cloning efforts (given that he was just coming back into existence after being annihiliated) and later take credit for them; simplicity suggests that the young Legion were the clones after all (even if Giffen intended otherwise).
But anyone else who has read those issues is free to argue an alternate interpretation.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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Lightning Saga/Superman & LSH (2007-present) - Billed as a continuation of the 1958-1985/6 team. Does not include the 1986-1994 material or any of the other material which wasn't billed as continuations.
I know Dream Girl was part of the recent Lightning Saga in JLA but is she appearing in the Superman & LSH Legion stories too?
From: South Florida | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: No, it was mentioned that she's offstage on Naltor during that story.
Thanks Matthew E for the info!
I was just checking out your Legion Abstract website. Great site!
I am a new Legion fan and I have now become a Dreamer/Dream Girl fan. I am trying to find a list of her appearances. I have picked up some of "The Legion" series and I really like that series especially the art. Do you know where I can find a list of all the appearances of Dreamer in that series?
I know she appeared in a bunch of "Legionnaires" issues but the art in the few that I have is sooooooooooooooooo awful.....Dreamer looks like a steriod wrestler so I am skipping those issues.
From: South Florida | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I don't know of a listing. She appeared in the Xanthu issue of Legion Worlds, and maybe once or twice in the first ten issues of The Legion, only really reappearing once the Robotica storyline got going. I know she was a big player in the 'Dream Crime' arc, and again in the 'For No Better Reason' arc that ended the series, but I'd have to go through the issues one by one to get more specific than that.
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
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