posted
Lardy, I'm reading into it that Slott has still left things slightly vague in that he could pull a bait & switch and it would be plausible. Do you get that feeling too, or is that just wishful thinking on my part? In other words, we haven't seen 100% that the new Hobgoblin is Phil though it is obviously heavily implied.
That's how I've read it all along but I'm a jaded old Spider-Man fan who has a tough time believing anything is set in stone anymore. (Though you are also a long-time, likely also jaded, Spidey fan too so... )
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by profh0011: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many times can one series jump the shark, ANYWAY?
I would say Kingsley being killed off is controversial (at least to fans of Stern), but characterizing it as a "jump the shark" moment feels a little too extreme.
I haven't read the series since MJ got blown up and "permanently" killed in that airplane explosion, so I'm not sure what level of importance it is either. But to me, these "moments" have been going on since George Stacy got OFFED, and maybe, a few years before that.
Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Lardy, I'm reading into it that Slott has still left things slightly vague in that he could pull a bait & switch and it would be plausible. Do you get that feeling too, or is that just wishful thinking on my part? In other words, we haven't seen 100% that the new Hobgoblin is Phil though it is obviously heavily implied.
I dunno. I just haven't read it that way, but I suppose it's possible circumstantially. It seems if that's what Slott is going for, it's being tremendously downplayed.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by profh0011: I haven't read the series since MJ got blown up and "permanently" killed in that airplane explosion, so I'm not sure what level of importance it is either. But to me, these "moments" have been going on since George Stacy got OFFED, and maybe, a few years before that.
Wow, really? I guess any change in the status quo runs that risk with someone who's enjoying the series. For me, it was clearly the Clone Saga and specifically when the writers "revealed" that Peter was the clone all this time. Since then, it's been a series of sharks jumped, culminating with One More Day. Since then, there's been nothing so offensive, though Kraven's return may come closest.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Regarding Norman, even though his being alive in a way really lessens the character in mind as the premiere all-time great Spider-Man nemesis, I did enjoy the Jenkins stories post-Clone Saga quite a bit. And when I read them, I did think "well, this story at least kind of makes him being back worthwhile".
Was Norman ever this great nemesis first time round, though? After ASM #39, he was constantly getting bumped on the head to "forget" his Goblininity after all, and his use to kill off Gwen Stacy was largely "this guy's going nowhere, let's kill him off in a way that changes the series and replace him". Doc Ock was the big nemesis until the Clone Saga, really.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Since I've never really thought about how Hobby can exist in a Norman-living MU that much before, and you've made a lot of good points, I'm beginning to see how Hobby not being Kingsley might be a good thing (on the premise that he wasn't just recently killed which can be overturned in a heartbeat). But I definitely don't want him to be like Macendale, as a strait-up mercenary. He'd have to be different from both Norman & Macendale (which he originally was).
Having said you specifically don't want a "straight-up mercenary" Goblin, it behooves you to now say why not
quote:Originally posted by Chief Lardy: I kind of wish that if Slott had gone with a new Hobgoblin that it would be made into a mystery again. That element really suited the character, even though it really got bollocksed up over time. But I think identity mystery is a big part of any goblin character, or at least the notion that whomever is under the mask is just as important.
You say that, but how many of them have been satisfactorily resolved? The Hobgoblin mess is well known, the original Green Goblin revelation was a cheat (using a character introduced long after the ID was teased) and apart from that there's just the Bart Hamilton thing.
quote:Originally posted by profh0011: How do we KNOW it's really Norman Osborn anyway, and not just some CLONE?????
The big glider-scar on his chest is a clue.
quote:Originally posted by Chief Lardy: I would say Kingsley being killed off is controversial (at least to fans of Stern), but characterizing it as a "jump the shark" moment feels a little too extreme.
I'd agree in terms of getting rid of him (although the choice of replacement is poor). But with the shadow of OMD still over the series and Slott writing, it's still hovering over the shark anyway.
As for "controversial to fans of Stern"... notice how few of Stern's favoured characters get any play from other writers? [CM2/Photon is the archetypical example - a lead character in Stern's Avengers run, written out almost immediately by Walt Simonson on the basis that she "had one of the dullest costumes ever foisted on comic book readers with a personality to match", and seeing only background/trademark renewal/"running joke with Genis stealing her codenames" use until she was given to Warren Ellis on a "no-one cares, do what you like" basis for Nextwave].
posted
I read the conclusion to the first "Big Time" arc, and I found it to be a satisfying conclusion! It didn't totally rock my world, but the fact that it was the most enjoyable story arc of the regular, non-Ultimate Spidey I've read in YEARS (maybe since the original JMS Morlun story?) is significant. It was just a good, solid story that gave me pretty much everything I wanted out of a Spidey arc.
Like I said in my review of 650 (on the previous page), Humberto Ramos's art really grew on me here. His style seems perfect for Spidey. I assumed I'd hate it, but I enjoyed it for the most part.
Spidey should be a fun, breezy read most of the time. Dan Slott is capturing that very well in his first 4 issues. The humor is classic Spidey with Slott using some fresh ideas to bring the humor across. Last issue, it was gimmick with the brackets subbing for bits of dialogue other characters weren't into. This issue it was the empty dialogue bubble to reflect Spidey's noise-cancelling costume.
I like how Slott incorporated the Kingpin and Montana into the storyline and even had a couple of possible longterm consequences by the end. I'm also enjoying the looming return of Mac Gargan as the Scorpion and of Alistair Smythe as the Spider-Slayer.
And that last bit which pretty much establishes Phil Urich as kind of an anti-Peter Parker was a terrific bit of subtle work on Slott's part. Really an ingenious move that is helping me warm up to the new Hobgoblin a little more than I thought I would as recently as last issue. If Slott handles the character this well moving forward, I will be pleased.
Well, dman, I'm buying Amazing Spider-Man again! Who'da thunk it? I think Slott has written himself into me at least giving ASM an extended try-out. If he can keep up this level of quality, I'll be buying longterm again!
Lardy's Rating of ASM 648-651 "Big Time": 4 Donuts! (out of five)
Definitely check out the trade!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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Work contineus at the SA Marvel site. For the Spidey section, just wrote this for the 4th "Thumbnails" page. It's tricky trying to say a lot in only 4 lines of text. "Links" (at the site) up the wazoo.
"With the Oct 1970-dated issues, all hell broke loose. Jack Kirby left for DC, causing Stan to yank John Romita off Spidey and have him do Fantastic Four instead. Fresh from Captain Marvel, Spidey's new artist was Gil Kane, just in time for the uncalled-for death of Captain Stacy. As before, Romita remained on the book as "de facto" editor, still supplying plots, covers, and occasional interiors."
My view has long been that AMAZING SPIDER-MAN has been an almost endless series of "jumping the shark" moments. This is when something happens that is SO bad, so DRASTICALLY off-putting, that somehow, the series NEVER really recovers. But unlike TV series, where such an event eventually (usually soon) leads to a permanent loss of quality and audience, and cancellation, with these corporate-owned comic-book characters, the DAMNED things go on, and on, and ON, from one "jumping the shark" moment to another to another TO ANOTHER. How can any modern fans even stand it???
Allow me to list my own personal choices...
1 - John Romita takes over, and half the cast undergoes sudden and drastic personality changes.
2 - Stan yanks John off the book to do other things, causing a steady stream of "fill-in" artists, ALL THE WHILE John is still supplying plots, layouts, and covers.
3 - Jack quits, and Stan yanks John off to do the FF, replacing him with a guy HE HIMSELF not long before said he hated-- GIL KANE. As always seems to happen when kane is around, the book takes a DARK, manic tone, kicking off a new era of pointless depressing crap by MURDERING Captain George Stacy, making it look like Spidey did it, and having Gwen hate Pete's alter-ego. Also under Kane, MJ changes from a nice, free-spirited girl, to a self-serving B****.
4 - With nothing better to do, John, Gerry, Roy & (once again) Gil BUMP OFF Gwen, and follow it up the next month by bumping off Norman. To this day, Gerry & John are each claiming it was "ALL THEIR IDEA".
5 - Gil swaps books with Ross Andu, putting one of the LEAST-APPROPRIATE artists ever for Spidey in place on his book for a long, long time.
6 - Romita turns over control of the book to Gerry Conway (who fans only THINK had been plotting the book himself for over a year by then), and the quality of the writing plummets further still.
7 - The "Gwen Stacy Clone" is foisted on Conway, making him even less popular with fans, not long before he departs for DC.
8 - Len Wein makes MJ even more of a B**** than Kane had, and spends 3 years on the book essentially telling ONE long storyline. Andru & Esposito supply some of the WORST "art" in the history of the series.
9 - Marv Wolfman breaks up Pete & MJ
After this, it boggles my mind that anybody ever cared at all. Pete goes thru a steady succession of "relationships" with a parade of girls, not one of whom I would ever be caught dead with. And this is still back in the late 70's!!!
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I'm still enjoying Amazing under Dan Slott quite a bit! Though I deceided to skip the issues that featured Avengers Academy because they screamed "FILL-IN!", I've enjoyed the recent Mr.Negative/Anti-Venom/Wraith two-parter. And that's saying something because I new nothing about Mr. Negative and very little about Eddie Brock's new identity. That shows that Slott did his job and wrote the story in such a way as to let readers know what they needed to know to enjoy it.
I love that Slott's not afraid of Peter's long history. Having someone use the Wraith identity and making it appear that Jean DeWolff was back was something that a lot of writers would not have done. (He also showed many familiar, mostly forgotten faces in the excellent "dream sequence" story right after Marla Jameson's death.) I kinda almost wish that Wraith was Jean's ghost, but I like how the revelation showed how competent Pete's girlfriend Carlie is at her job.
I'd say that anyone who loves Spidey and has been estranged by numerous missteps with the character over the last coupla decades should check out Slott's run on Amazing. It has the feel of those great Spidey eras of the 60s, 70s and 80s without feeling totally rehashed. Great stuff!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Agree with everything you say. This is probably the best the series has been post-clone saga. Slott has totally my previous negative feelings towards him. He just seems to get Peter, his cast and what makes a good Spider-Man story while making it feel totally fresh and new.
I also loved the Wraith character which is a great mix of new and obscure. Slott shows he is a good writer in using this story to also make Carlie shine, as Lardy says and also address the Mr. Negative subplot (which has been ongoing but stands on it's own here).
Also, I love Eddie Brock's status quo for the first time ever, really. Just like I live Venom for the first time ever, I also like Eddie. The way it's broken out is really interesting.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I'm actually pretty excited for Spider Island! When at first I heard the Jackal was returning (a villain who holds a special place in my heart) I was hesitant. But now that I'm seeing him, I'm just really excited to have him back. He's always been one of my favorites even before the 90's Clone Saga.
I'm loving how tech-heavy and sci-fi Slott has made the series again. Spidey should always contain those elements and it just feels fresh and exciting while being the perfect evolution of the series.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Just read Amazing #666, the prelude to "Spider Island". This book is massively new reader friendly and a perfect jumping-on point for anyone interested in the storyline or in Spidey's "Big Time" direction. Everything you need to know going into SI is here, along with a great exploration of Pete's current status quo. As a true prelude, it doesn't actually begin the storyline full force, but it's highly entertaining and puts most of the pieces on the chess board.
"Spider Island" looks like it might be the rare Big Two event to actually satisfy if this is any indication. Slott's run has been of high quality to this point, and the art in this issue by Stefano Caselli is a terrific lovechild of Marcos Martin's cleaner, classic style and Humberto Ramos's cartoony, hyper-expressive work--having a middle ground between both.
Ramos will be doing the issues of the actual storyline. I've been put off by his style in the past, but Ramos really seems to have found the perfect character for his style.
Best of all, even with all the tie-ins, all anyone really has to buy to get the story are the issues of Amazing themselves. Who knows, though...maybe I will pick up some of the others!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
So far, I've been enjoying the hell out of Spider-Island, both the Spidey issues and the Venom issues. Neither is needed for the other btw. I may pick up the Cloak & Dagger series.
I'm actually enjoying the usage of the Jackal so far as well, after some trepidation. The mystery of who the mysterious woman is has me interested, since Joyce Delaney / Gwen clone has been eliminated.
This also looks like a big focus on Carlie and Peter's relationship which is welcome.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Spider-Island continues to rage through Amazing Spider-Man (with a host of tie-in minis that I’m not picking up) and thus far I’ve been enjoying the heck out of it! Rather than a serious, dark, angsty storyline, thus far the story has been one huge Summer Blockbuster—full of fun, action-adventure and excitement. It may end up being what Maximum Carnage could have been!
The premise is just fun to begin with, and Slott plays that up to the extreme. This includes more guest stars than you can shake a stick at, Peter web-slinging sans costume through NYC, Carlie being awesome with her spider-powers, Jonah deputizing all the ‘good’ New Yorkers with Spider-powers and all kinds of other tidbits. While the main plotline is never out of focus, all of these little side moments really enhance each issue’s enjoyment. I also love that Slott has included so much of Peter’s supporting cast here as well.
The larger plotline, complete with the Jackal and his mysterious partner / benefactor, also continues to intrigue. The Jackal is being used in a way he never has been before, and I’m enjoying that approach.
Slott, who is a master of Spidey continuity, also cleverly leaves some Easter Eggs for longtime fans. In the recent Jackal one-shot (the only one I grabbed), Joyce Delaney is killed—the original Gwen Clone. Considering she’s been a dangling plot thread for 40 years, this didn’t bother me too much; I’m more impressed that anyone remembered her besides the 100 or so mega Spidey fans online.
I tend to not enjoy Humberto Ramos’ artwork but with the tone of this story so far it seems to be working. He can draw crazy, non-stop action and we’ve gotten plenty of that. He also looks like he’s had a blast drawing all the lame one-off Spidey costumes over the years.
[ September 15, 2011, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
So Resident Spider-Man Expert Cobaltus: Who do YOU think the mysterious "partner/benefactor" is? If anyone should have a good guess, it should be you!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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