quote:Originally posted by Owl Lad: I emailed him too. Don't bother. He's not listening. He sends the same response no matter what you write to him.
I wrote:
Dear Mr. Didio,
I am writing to express my disappointment at the cancellation of my favourite comic book. Yes, I know it is just a comic book, but it is one that has held my rapt attention for over 25 years. I know that you have responded to other fans by having us believe that we "will be excited and intrigued by what the new year has to offer." Could you please offer us loyal fans more assurance than these words, ie. the continuation of the series at some time in the near future?
Thank you for your time...
He responded:
Sorry that this series is coming to an end but I see so much great product for the Legion in ’09, I believe you will be excited and intrigued by what the new year has to offer. Legion Of Three Worlds will continue into January and this will clarify the status of all the Legion.
Legion has a long and storied history with the DC Universe and will continue to be a mainstay of our line.
Regards,
DD
I'm not sure he even read my email because he may not have realized that I was quoting from the response he was going to send me anyway.
Dan Didio=unoriginal and insensitive
This sounds to me like he has an administrative assistant or intern reviewing anything sent to this email address and sending out a "canned statement" in reply.
Someone should try sending an email to this email address on a non-Legion topic and see what kind of reply they receive (if any).
Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Owl Lad: I emailed him too. Don't bother. He's not listening. He sends the same response no matter what you write to him.
...
Dan Didio=unoriginal and insensitive
This sounds to me like he has an administrative assistant or intern reviewing anything sent to this email address and sending out a "canned statement" in reply.
Someone should try sending an email to this email address on a non-Legion topic and see what kind of reply they receive (if any).
Come on, people, even at the time of snail mail, companies had this sort of policy... Unless you DO ask some particular questions that will make it difficult to get a "stationary" answer (hint, hint).
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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posted
I'm inclined to think that the original plan was for LO3W to end on the same month as LSH #50. Then a new LSH book featuring the LO3W Legion would be relaunched. It's just been delayed by the slow pace of LO3Ws due to George Perez's arthritis.
quote:Originally posted by googoomuck: I'm inclined to think that the original plan was for LO3W to end on the same month as LSH #50. Then a new LSH book featuring the LO3W Legion would be relaunched. It's just been delayed by the slow pace of LO3Ws due to George Perez's arthritis.
Actually, it's been delayed by the slow pace of Geoff's writing. George just received the completed script for the next issue of LO3W last week.
-------------------- "Hey Jim! Get Mon out of the Zone!! And...when do we get Condo back?"
From: Paragon City on patrol | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by googoomuck: I'm inclined to think that the original plan was for LO3W to end on the same month as LSH #50. Then a new LSH book featuring the LO3W Legion would be relaunched. It's just been delayed by the slow pace of LO3Ws due to George Perez's arthritis.
Actually, it's been delayed by the slow pace of Geoff's writing. George just received the completed script for the next issue of LO3W last week.
Next #2 or next #3?
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Somebody who was there with us correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we hear something to the effect of "as long as Paul Levitz is the president of DC, there will be a Legion book" at the San Diego con this summer? If it wasn't there, I know I heard it somewhere. I believe it too.
That said, if they give the Legion some time off, that might not be the worst thing in the world. I feel like the book has been sort of lost in the tall grass for a while. Maybe a break will help DC find a definite path for the book.
Part of the problem the Legion has had since before Zero Hour is that successive writers have had a hard time defining why the Legion exists. What are they there to do? Do they fight crime? Do they defend the UP? What is their raison d'etre? That's what I think has been missing since Levitz left the book. The TMK Legion really had no reason to be together except that they were old buddies who wanted to be together. The post-Zero Hour Legion was supposed to be some kind of symbol for the UP, but how do you use that concept to tell compelling stories? After Legion Lost, that concept just got amplified, but I don't think that helped. And, much as I enjoyed Mark and Barry's take on the Legion, they honestly had a pretty flimsy reason for being together that Mark just didn't quite fully articulate.
When the Legion comes back, that's what they need: purpose. In theater, directors try to make sure that everything that actors do is based on a clear intention or objective. If an actor crosses the room, it needs to be for a reason. If there's a reason behind the cross, it tells a story; if there's no reason, it's just a guy wandering around stage. Give the Legion a clear objective and we'll see some more interesting and compelling stories again.
From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Director Lad: Somebody who was there with us correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we hear something to the effect of "as long as Paul Levitz is the president of DC, there will be a Legion book" at the San Diego con this summer? If it wasn't there, I know I heard it somewhere. I believe it too.
That said, if they give the Legion some time off, that might not be the worst thing in the world. I feel like the book has been sort of lost in the tall grass for a while. Maybe a break will help DC find a definite path for the book.
Part of the problem the Legion has had since before Zero Hour is that successive writers have had a hard time defining why the Legion exists. What are they there to do? Do they fight crime? Do they defend the UP? What is their raison d'etre? That's what I think has been missing since Levitz left the book. The TMK Legion really had no reason to be together except that they were old buddies who wanted to be together. The post-Zero Hour Legion was supposed to be some kind of symbol for the UP, but how do you use that concept to tell compelling stories? After Legion Lost, that concept just got amplified, but I don't think that helped. And, much as I enjoyed Mark and Barry's take on the Legion, they honestly had a pretty flimsy reason for being together that Mark just didn't quite fully articulate.
When the Legion comes back, that's what they need: purpose. In theater, directors try to make sure that everything that actors do is based on a clear intention or objective. If an actor crosses the room, it needs to be for a reason. If there's a reason behind the cross, it tells a story; if there's no reason, it's just a guy wandering around stage. Give the Legion a clear objective and we'll see some more interesting and compelling stories again.
I have to disagree here a bit. I think TMK was totally about a reason and a purpose for a Legion. Cornered by a galaxy in shambles, with every reason to be disbanded (personal, political, you name it), they kept it going. Reboot, the lowest point in Legion history after Legion on The Run (and that's considering all Legion baby stories from the 60s), clearly was about meandering around and - to me - not even DnA were able to give it a reason for existing. But it was worse: I had no idea why they were so boring and lifeless as characters. So, yes, in a sense, the reboot was the ultimate failure for a lack of purpose (why are they retelling LSH stories but worse and more puerile?). Threeboot actually had a purpose: youth against parents. Too swingin' 60s to make any sense, it hampered the title for sometime. But this is hardly the case now with Shooter and Manapul. This is a team of young heroes trying to prove the Universe how capable they can be. Less about age and more about heroism and what it takes. So its failure (especially now) has nothing to do with purpose. (in fact, the book still sells +15% more than it did 5 years ago).
My guess? It's concept. When TPTB decided Giffen had gone too far (which was the only way to go, really), they killed the book. And by creating two other monsters (reboot and 3boot), they've created new LSH fans who are probably disliking this "old school" theory and making them angry as hell. Absolutely no solution is to be found by simply giving this sort-of original team to Geoff. It will still be just another team group on the shelves.
I'll insist that, if DC has to try something bold and new, Legion is that book. Legion could be a book of 4-part series, interlocked. Or an anthology. Or a "concept board" for progressive/retro writing and art. Legion was always ahead of its time up to TMK (and I can prove it!). When DC decided it would be the next X-Men (by making it just another superhero book), it died its horrible death.
So you can add Superboy, undo Crisis and bring back Kara for all you want. It will still be another book on the shelves.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Just what the man said... except that I think DC decided that TITANS should be the next X-Men, thus ruining the title after #90. Don't know what they wanted the Legion to be, always had the feeling they build the Reboot up to attract much younger readers. Much, much younger
From: Bamberg, Germany | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Honestly, I think DC cancelling the LSH at this time when it's still above the "cancellation line", in the Top 100 and outselling many of their other titles is a clear sign that a new series is being prepped after L3W...most likely starring Geoff's version of the characters (not necessarily written by him). But at this time all the wording we're getting is really coy to make us think otherwise. It's what we've been speculating for half a year, and it's still the most likely scenario. DC cancelled Threeboot because they think they have a take that will sell better, and they don't want to publish two versions simultaneously.
I'd bet there's SOME definite, timely follow-up to L3W planned, whether it's another mini, a longterm guest appearance in Action or an ongoing.
The problem for me and some others is that we were enjoying what Shooter was doing and are weary of yet another reboot. But given the evidence, I'm pretty sure there's something on the near horizon. If there's any hope for Legion fandom, whatever it is had better be REALLY well thought out.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by LardLad: Honestly, I think DC cancelling the LSH at this time when it's still above the "cancellation line", in the Top 100 and outselling many of their other titles is a clear sign that a new series is being prepped after L3W...most likely starring Geoff's version of the characters (not necessarily written by him). But at this time all the wording we're getting is really coy to make us think otherwise. It's what we've been speculating for half a year, and it's still the most likely scenario. DC cancelled Threeboot because they think they have a take that will sell better, and they don't want to publish two versions simultaneously.
I'd bet there's SOME definite, timely follow-up to L3W planned, whether it's another mini, a longterm guest appearance in Action or an ongoing.
The problem for me and some others is that we were enjoying what Shooter was doing and are weary of yet another reboot. But given the evidence, I'm pretty sure there's something on the near horizon. If there's any hope for Legion fandom, whatever it is had better be REALLY well thought out.
I've been thinking the same thing. I hope they do bring the original characters back but do find a way to not make them so old.....I'd be good with late teens or very early twenties...but not 30+. I hope they avoid marriages and children. Not because it isn't interesting but rather writers can't seem to put the breaks on things and keep advancing the timeline once these kinds of events unfold.
-------------------- I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by LardLad: Honestly, I think DC cancelling the LSH at this time when it's still above the "cancellation line", in the Top 100 and outselling many of their other titles is a clear sign that a new series is being prepped after L3W...most likely starring Geoff's version of the characters (not necessarily written by him). But at this time all the wording we're getting is really coy to make us think otherwise. It's what we've been speculating for half a year, and it's still the most likely scenario. DC cancelled Threeboot because they think they have a take that will sell better, and they don't want to publish two versions simultaneously.
I'd bet there's SOME definite, timely follow-up to L3W planned, whether it's another mini, a longterm guest appearance in Action or an ongoing.
The problem for me and some others is that we were enjoying what Shooter was doing and are weary of yet another reboot. But given the evidence, I'm pretty sure there's something on the near horizon. If there's any hope for Legion fandom, whatever it is had better be REALLY well thought out.
I've been thinking the same thing. I hope they do bring the original characters back but do find a way to not make them so old.....I'd be good with late teens or very early twenties...but not 30+. I hope they avoid marriages and children. Not because it isn't interesting but rather writers can't seem to put the breaks on things and keep advancing the timeline once these kinds of events unfold.
To me, it seems that in LS and Action, not too many years have passed since Crisis - maybe another Five years later? I would guess the characters to be in their middle 20s, the three founders maybe 30. As this is playing in the 30th century, being 30 does not mean the same that being 30 is meaning today - and even today, being 30 does not mean that someone is already old or uninteresting...
I never understood why so many people were so keen on the Legion being teenagers. I mean, yes, they started as teenagers, but in most of their classic stories, they certainly did not ACT like teenagers. So their "inner age" over the decades was always about 25, maybe older. And even if they were teenagers in the beginning: how interesting can a book be whose characters just don't develop? Those are supposed to be human beings, so how can they be 18 for the rest of their (and our) lives? they HAVE to grow older, and I really liked it when this was shown prominently in 5YL cause I had grown older with them, so this was natural.
Just discovering the JSA myth, I really think there's an example how character growing older can be managed. They grow, they have successors, they even die. That's the stuff a true epic is made of, not 20 teenagers in spandex fighting Tangleweb for 20 years over and over again...
From: Bamberg, Germany | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: Next #2 or next #3?
Based on what little I know about the comics process, it'd bet it was #4 or maybe #5.
(If this was a joke...sorry. I took it literal.)
If there is no series planned beyond the current one, then not allowing Shooter and Manapul to finish at #54 is criminal and I'm shocked no one in Editorial at DC has learned enough from the DnA debacle to let the creative types finish their stories properly.
From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: And by creating two other monsters (reboot and 3boot), they've created new LSH fans who are probably disliking this "old school" theory and making them angry as hell.
Nah, I got my anger out of the way back in 2004 (well, and 05. And 06. But by 07 I was in recovery ). Now, I'm just watching with a sort of detached amusement.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: I have to disagree here a bit. I think TMK was totally about a reason and a purpose for a Legion. Cornered by a galaxy in shambles, with every reason to be disbanded (personal, political, you name it), they kept it going.
Yes, but why did they keep it going? What, exactly, were they trying to accomplish by reforming the Legion? That's what I've always felt was missing.
quote: Threeboot actually had a purpose: youth against parents.
See, this is where I think Mark and Barry didn't really make their intentions clear (the "we're so bored of it we could scream" from the first issue didn't help). At the start of the 3boot, the Legion was partly a counter-culture movement, but the actual team was together because they believed that society was stagnating and, at least for Brainy and Cos, that the stagnation would lead to society being defenseless in the face of new threats from the outside. It was less "youth against parents" and more "radicals against the stifling status quo." I'm not saying it worked, necessarily, but it wasn't as simple as a lot of people seemed to interpret it.
quote: This is a team of young heroes trying to prove the Universe how capable they can be. Less about age and more about heroism and what it takes. So its failure (especially now) has nothing to do with purpose. (in fact, the book still sells +15% more than it did 5 years ago).
I will admit that Shooter has offered his Legion more opportunities for heroism than many of the recent versions, but it doesn't solve the basic premise problem: the reason for the base existence of the team is not especially compelling. (For myself, I preferred a Legion that didn't care what anyone else thought, but worked to save them anyway. They weren't trying to prove themselves, because they already believed in themselves and that was enough.)
Whatever else they are, DC is in the business of making money, which they do by selling more comics, and, based on fan reaction to the "Action" Legion, they probably think they can do that better with a different Legion than the one that's running now. Even if the current book is selling better than it did in '03, how much better did the Superman and the Legion stories sell in Action? How many copies of the hardcover did they sell? That's the metric that DC is going to pay attention to.
quote: When TPTB decided Giffen had gone too far (which was the only way to go, really), they killed the book.
Actually, Giffen had been gone a couple of years when the 5yl was rebooted.
quote: And by creating two other monsters (reboot and 3boot), they've created new LSH fans who are probably disliking this "old school" theory and making them angry as hell.
This I absolutely agree with. The split between Legion fans has some of the characteristics of a religious schism. DC is going to have a tough time satisfying all the factions of Legion fandom at this point. I think that's another reason to give us six months to a year off. Let us all get some distance, then come back with a Legion book that gets back to the fundamentals. Of course, to do that you have to figure out what those fundamentals are...
From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: When TPTB decided Giffen had gone too far (which was the only way to go, really), they killed the book.
Actually, Giffen had been gone a couple of years when the 5yl was rebooted.
Yes, but the book was dumbed down from then on - it was an editorial decision to get the book back to spandex, "action scenes" and dumb nicknames, which made no sense at all after all that happened before. It's like calling Ron Marz (the butcher of GL) to write Doom Patrol after Grant Morrison. The reboot was a consequence of a stupid decision. Legionnaires was supposed to be the "hero" book while "LSH" could be the challenging (or the suggested Omega Men Keith was supposed to be doing).
quote:
quote: And by creating two other monsters (reboot and 3boot), they've created new LSH fans who are probably disliking this "old school" theory and making them angry as hell.
This I absolutely agree with. The split between Legion fans has some of the characteristics of a religious schism. DC is going to have a tough time satisfying all the factions of Legion fandom at this point. I think that's another reason to give us six months to a year off. Let us all get some distance, then come back with a Legion book that gets back to the fundamentals. Of course, to do that you have to figure out what those fundamentals are... [/qb]
There are no fundamentals. Each reboot gave a new unique perspective on what makes Legion - some of them even contradict each other (youthful optimism x long and established chronology). Unless DC works in a different agenda in different rules - and from what I can see from W&K original idea and hopefully Johns interpretation there is some space for a bolder approach - Legion will NEVER catch on again, because they will always piss some side of it.
[ October 04, 2008, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Ricardo ]
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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