quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: Rick is onto something; Superboy was a cornerstone, and part of the history. But Leviz/Giffden proved Legion could stand on its own and be a heavy-hitter as well.
I personally believe the 80s (and even 70s) Legion should have been palling around with a young Superman, not a Superboy, as both should have grown over the years.
I think the major problem was never the Crisis, but changing the premises of the book: characters matured, new characters would substitute old ones, chronology followed real time, adulthood was treated like adulthood - and it all ended when Keith left v4. From THEN on, it all went downhill.
What I don't understand is why Shooter is leaving at #50 if he could stick around for at least a couple of issues more.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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I think the major problem was never the Crisis, but changing the premises of the book: characters matured, new characters would substitute old ones, chronology followed real time, adulthood was treated like adulthood - and it all ended when Keith left v4. From THEN on, it all went downhill. [/QB]
I think Ricardo is exactly right about this. The real-time continuity, while novel, was a time bomb for the LSH. It went off in v4, which took the original LSH well beyond the point of no return. While v4 is what pulled me into the Legion, it couldn't sustain me, and after Giffen left is when I dropped it the first time. It was the young SW6 Legionnaires that REALLY made me a fan of the TRUE concept of the LSH and kept me coming back to the series over and over again.
This is why I'm still pretty set against bringing back the original Legion in their current mid-to-late-30s age. It'll always feel like a 20-year high school reunion; fun enough, but with sense that the glory days are long gone.
-------------------- -- Still here to help.
From: ATL, fool!!! WHAT!!! | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
So that’s it. Like DnA, Shooter gets the ax before finishing his story. But this time, no monthly relaunch in sight or even rumored to be in the making. With the demise of the cartoon series and the Johnny DC companion book, the Legion’s 50th anniversary has been turned into a funeral.
When Shooter is done with the Legion, so am I. There’s just no sense in fooling ourselves anymore. It doesn’t matter how well the LO3W miniseries sells, the Johnsboot bogus-original Legion hasn't got the legs to stand on its own for long. A couple of years of playing second fiddles to Superman (himself an anemic franchise DC can no longer pretend is its flagship property), followed by yet another and perhaps final descent into obscurity. I don’t want to be around to see it happen.
Long live the …. oh, forget it. The Legion is already dead.
From: Reimagined Trom | Registered: Jul 2003
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I think the major problem was never the Crisis, but changing the premises of the book: characters matured, new characters would substitute old ones, chronology followed real time, adulthood was treated like adulthood - and it all ended when Keith left v4. From THEN on, it all went downhill.
I think Ricardo is exactly right about this. The real-time continuity, while novel, was a time bomb for the LSH. It went off in v4, which took the original LSH well beyond the point of no return. While v4 is what pulled me into the Legion, it couldn't sustain me, and after Giffen left is when I dropped it the first time. It was the young SW6 Legionnaires that REALLY made me a fan of the TRUE concept of the LSH and kept me coming back to the series over and over again.
This is why I'm still pretty set against bringing back the original Legion in their current mid-to-late-30s age. It'll always feel like a 20-year high school reunion; fun enough, but with sense that the glory days are long gone. [/QB]
I think the SW6 concept would actually allow the book to really take off in two directions: a more mature sci-fi political book and a return to "super-hero"hood with SW6. Why DC screwed this up is beyond comprehension.
And Legion is strong enough to have new characters taking up the mantle from older members who would be resigning. Much like JSA does these days in a more coward manner.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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posted
The Legion died a long time ago,for me it was when they published that God awful Pocket Universe Superboy story.
-------------------- I tried to rip their soul out.I tried to make them forget Superman. But they won't.
From: Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I think there are two different issues. The Legion had moved from teens into the 20s-30s before the Levitz/Giffen run, so I don't think that was the problem. They also dealt with "serious" issues during the S/LSH, LSH, and Baxter issues. So age alone isn't the question.
Where I think the 5YL and then the subsequent runs is that they got rid of too many old characters and brought in too many new characters. One of the things about the Legion is that its membership was remarkably stable. Between the end of the Adventure run and Zero Hour, how many members did the Legion add? I think it's 10 new members in about 20 years. (Timber Wolf and Chemical King joined in 1968; 5YL began in 1989.) Just off the top of my mind, 5YL and Glorithverse added Laurel Gand, Celeste Rockfish, Devlin O'Ryan, Kent Shakespeare, and Kono within a few issues. Plus you had characters who were rendered nearly unrecognizable, like Furball. I think that was the main reason readers balked, not that the Legion was dealing with the aftermath of the 5YL period. I think there were a lot of dramatic opportunities to delve into what had happened during those 5 years and how it affected the Legion. A good writer could have developed that story extraordinarily well. However, I felt that was more of an afterthought in the series (why did it take so long to actually detail Venado Bay, for instance). Instead, it was like some members of the Legion I knew were lifted from their reality, placed into a new environment without much explanation, and a bunch of new characters were added and I was expected to care about them.
Trying to bring back the "early" legion through the SW6 didn't work, imo, because too much Legion history and character growth would have disappeared if they became the 'dominant' Legion. The lighter tone of Legionnaires also didn't help, particularly in the 80s-90s, when mature comics were dominating the market.
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
My take is that I think there's room for expansion. I've alwayds thought the LSH was a strong enough concept that it could justify a couple of solo titles and maybe a team split. Use the X-Franchise as a model. Marvel isn't afraid to do spin offs and one shots and minis that feature secondary characters. They use the central premise to try new peeps and at one point they glutted the market with all things X and made money like they were printing it. DC has experimented with sci-fi versions of some of their flag ship characters but have never gone all the way to support new titles with them, for instance Batman Beyond was a great success for a wierd experiment with an old character. It's almost as if TPTB are afraid of success and would rather play it safe with a dwindling market rather than take a bold risk. I'd buy an Ultra Boy series..probably..I'd also buy a Superboy in the 31st century comic or even a Legionnaires 3 with a rotating cast, a Justice League-31st Century title would attract new readers so why not?. DC's experiments with solo Legionnaire titles have always been half hearted and for some reason put future teens in the 20th century rather than use the Sci-Fi backdrop that has always been a Legion strength. I don't understand their failure to go with a major part of the Legion's universe that sets it apart from every other comic out there.
This is of course supposing that DC went out of it's way to get creators that produced top quality work rather than newbies trying to use the LSH make their mark on the industry. That particular process has worked out well a few times but it's also produced some real stinkers. I'd like to see the company really put the Legionnaires to work and really see what the future could bring.
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Over at Newsarama, DC Comics confirmed the LSH will end with #50, with a 30-page issue Shooter says wraps up most of the story (he could have gone to #54, if allowed.)
posted
I suspect there's a plan beyond "hiatus". No way Didio would let a successful (thus far) launch like LO3W go without a follow-up. As we get closer to the end of LO3W, I expect an announcement of some kind.
It is a bit of a kick in the head though, to think we're going from three Legion books to none in the space of a few months.
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2004
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No Legion = No comics at all for me, I think. I will probably keep buying the ones my six-year likes, but otherwise that's it.
-------------------- ...but you don't have a moment where you're sitting there staring at a table full of twenty-five characters with little name signs that say, "Hi, my superpower is confusing you!"
From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
So Dan 'I hate Nightwing, let's kill him!' Didio is going to put the nail in the Legion coffin.
[sarcastic voice] That's a shock. [/sarcastic voice]
He's been a huge fan of killing off teen heroes altogether, so a whole team of them must be like an itchy rash that he's been yearning to scratch out of existence.
Happy 50th anniversary! <Blam.>
I swear, him and Joe 'I wanna kill Mary Jane, but the fans won't let me!' Quesada have some running competition for who can destroy the comic book medium first...
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rouge: I suspect there's a plan beyond "hiatus".
I suspect there isn't.
Oh, I'm sure there'll be another Legion comic someday. After all:
1. DC has to publish comics about something. 2. There are people who want to buy Legion comics. 3. There are people who want to write and draw Legion comics.
posted
While 25K (and dropping) isn't the healthiest levels for a book, it's also far above the cancellation level given other books that are hanging in there at a lower level. Even if it was cost of talent vs. profit, it would be easy to shuffle out Shooter for a lower costed scribe.
I still stand by my hunch that something's up, otherwise they'd run the title into the ground before discarding it.
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2004
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