posted
Edited again to mention Dream Girl's connection to the Dreaming.
You know, as I think about it it seems more and more that the Johns run was full of stuff that we'd be better off without and that it only seems sensible because it was better than not having the original Legion at all.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote: Originally posted by Kent: so what? It's not like that annual really mattered in the grand scheme of things.
I doubt he considers it one of his finest; it came off more like a throw-away idea.
Throw-away idea? You mean like the very first appearance of the Legion of Super-Heroes was?
not quite. no one seems to have ever clamored for the return of the Durlan Greek gods. Or for any revisiting of that story at all.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kent: It's not like that annual really mattered in the grand scheme of things.
First of all, the issue was full of little retcons/mistakes like that. Contradicting one obscure story isn't that big a deal; contradicting many obscure and not-so-obscure stories adds up to death by a thousand cuts.
Second, small retcons can add up over time too. If every story for the next couple of years only contradicted one obscure reference, Legion history would be nonsense by the time it was all over.
seems like almost every issue from the 1970s, actually. And Legion managed to get through that okay.
I look at comics lore like Arthurian lore: written by too many hands to be fully consistent, and the inconsistencies/flaws are part of the cannon. To me, it's better to appreciate the gist of the mythos than try to iron out the wrinkles.
but I've been the anal-continuity freak at various times (I mean that in fond nostalgia, not any dis), so I both respect and am amused by this project.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Adventure #12 says that Superboy is from the 20th Century but the Legion is from the 31st. If the Legion takes place exactly 1000 years after Superboy's time, this can't be true. Probably a mistake.
IIRC Legion stories (Adventure to Volume 3 era) have always been 1000 years after date they were published give or take a month or two.
Silver Age Lad
Part-time member living in another century
posted
When DC stated that this was the original Legion, I doubt very much that the statement was meant to include every detail from the silver age Earth One. Original Legion meant Bouncing Boy to Quislet.
When you look at the Flash, Green Lantern or Superman, all of these characters' backgrounds have been greatly changed since the silver age but they are still touted as the original silver-age heroes. The DCU has moved on and that movement has affected the Legion just like all the other characters. Large chunks of the changes to Barry Allen, Hal Jordan and the Superman family are down to the tinkering of Geoff Johns so we should expect the Legion to suffer similarly, just as the Legion suffered for John Byrne's changes to Superman in the 80s.
Try to imagine if there had been no 5YL, reboot or threeboot. Would the current tweaks have been acceptable twenty years ago. Are they any worse than the pocket universe Superboy for example?
Many of the changes are unnecessary and irritate the hell out of me but this is still the Legion of Mr & Mrs Ranzz, Mr & Mrs Taine, Tellus, Quislet and all the other little pieces that made me love the Legion all those years ago.
-------------------- "Our devotion to each other was unexplainable" "You were kids" "No Batman, we were Legion"
From: Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: When DC stated that this was the original Legion, I doubt very much that the statement was meant to include every detail from the silver age Earth One. Original Legion meant Bouncing Boy to Quislet.
When you look at the Flash, Green Lantern or Superman, all of these characters' backgrounds have been greatly changed since the silver age but they are still touted as the original silver-age heroes. The DCU has moved on and that movement has affected the Legion just like all the other characters. Large chunks of the changes to Barry Allen, Hal Jordan and the Superman family are down to the tinkering of Geoff Johns so we should expect the Legion to suffer similarly, just as the Legion suffered for John Byrne's changes to Superman in the 80s.
Try to imagine if there had been no 5YL, reboot or threeboot. Would the current tweaks have been acceptable twenty years ago. Are they any worse than the pocket universe Superboy for example?
Many of the changes are unnecessary and irritate the hell out of me but this is still the Legion of Mr & Mrs Ranzz, Mr & Mrs Taine, Tellus, Quislet and all the other little pieces that made me love the Legion all those years ago.
You worded that perfectly. I couldn't agree more!
-------------------- Touch the magic...
From: Morganfield, KY | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Silver Age Lad: When DC stated that this was the original Legion, I doubt very much that the statement was meant to include every detail from the silver age Earth One. Original Legion meant Bouncing Boy to Quislet. ... Try to imagine if there had been no 5YL, reboot or threeboot. Would the current tweaks have been acceptable twenty years ago. Are they any worse than the pocket universe Superboy for example?
I think that the statement could be interpreted as "we're going to keep as much as reasonably possible". This does not mean that they have to keep Cosmic Boy's magnetic eyes, or every story where the Legion plays a prank on some 20th century person. But I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret that as "we're not doing a whole bunch of gratuitous retconning all at once".
Registered: Apr 2010
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Part of the problem is that one person's obscure trivial plot point is another person's vital bit of classic Legion lore.
It does amuse me that people who complain about arbitrary deviations from old school Legion continuity are called "anal-continuity freaks" while the changes are almost always excused under the banner of "Well, the rest of the DCU has changed, so we've got to expect that the Legion will have to be altered to conform with every other comic DC is publishing at the moment."
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I just reread the first post to see how far we've gotten. Very good stuff, Ken!
Maybe by the 12 issue (end of Levitz first year) you could do a full-on summary of all inconsistencies, deleting all mistakes, fixes and unimportant things (like statues). There could be an annual update of that, and you can keep the first post of this thread going the way it is now so its kind of like the Master List.
Er, that is, if you don't mind me making more work for you.
I actually think we have a really firm handle on continuity at this point. Other than Countdown, which no one clearly intends on ever addressing, things aren't quite as messy as someone would think at first.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Not all of the list is about inconsistencies in the first place, like the Tornado Twins/XS stuff (which was from your original list), or the list of retcons.
Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Oh, I know. I think you've done a great job!
I'm just curious about how much Paul can actually resolve in one year's time.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Added explanation for the Superboy date error in Adventure Comics.
Is there any way we can pin the thread? Sooner or later I'm going to run out of changes to make.
Edit: also added Inferno and Sun Girl and changed the 5YL section to an other continuities section so Dr. Aven could be put there. And the Kyle Rayner reboot crossover.
[ August 08, 2010, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Ken Arromdee ]
Registered: Apr 2010
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