posted
I think undoing the Lanoth thing is the first one of those.
At any rate, Adventure #517 has its own problems, so I've added it twice, once as un-retconning Superman: Secret Origin and once as adding retcons. I made a long post on the DC board complaining about retcons that supposedly don't change anything we actually saw. It's a shame that the list now has an "intentional retcon--during V6" section.
[ August 11, 2010, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Ken Arromdee ]
Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
i wonder if the flight belt thing was an artist remembering what originally took place and got it drawn up and it was too late to change it back to rings post production...(no one wants their legion books to be late do they?) ...not that a mistake like that is acceptable but tolerable if it switches back.
-------------------- Bring back the super-cousins
From: nyc | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Iam Legion: I don't think so. the Belts are also specifically mentioned oin the dialog... something like "he even bought you those ridiculously expensive flight belts".
yeah i know...but since he had them with flight rings b4 this...chronicles error.
-------------------- Bring back the super-cousins
From: nyc | Registered: Jul 2003
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Okay, I would like to know if you guys think these count enough to be added (both from Legion of Three Worlds #1):
1) Brande is killed, reverts to orange Durlan form when he dies (implying that the orange form is Durlans' natural form, which is something that's been on again, off again). 2) Brainiac 5 makes a point of saying that he alone created Mon-El's anti-lead serum. There seems little point in this statement unless it's meant to retcon away the story where Saturn Girl created the first, temporary, anti-lead serum. However, it doesn't explicitly contradict that since he could mean that he just created the final one.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ken Arromdee: 1) Brande is killed, reverts to orange Durlan form when he dies (implying that the orange form is Durlans' natural form, which is something that's been on again, off again).
This, to me, is a quandary. As of pre-Crisis continuity, the purple-robed green-tentacle monsters are the 'true form.' As of Brande's tale of his past in the recent Adventure, the purple-robed, green-tentacle monsters are the true forms, and he explicitly *designed* the orange form, to set other sentients minds at ease (with the help of a marketing/PR firm). As of Invasion, Durlans could shapeshift in the early 20th century, and it was previously established that the war that gave them these abilities occured in the times when Democritus was first proposing the theory of the atom.
And yet, as of War of the Supermen, Durlans are orange-skinned humanoids, and were long before they could shapeshift (since War of the Supermen retcons the Durlan war from classical times to post-20th century).
Right now, based on past continuity and most recently re-established continuity (from Brande's story in Adventure), Brande assuming orange humanoid form and not tentacle-monster form in Lo3W is a mistake (as is War of the Supermen, in general).
Possible explanations that would make this *not* a mistake;
Everyone off of Durla expects a 'dead' Durlan to revert to orange humanoid form.
1) The mortally-wounded Brande chose to revert to orange humanoid form and somehow 'locked' it in that shape to maintain the pretense that this is the Durlan's true form (knowing that his pretense of being human would not survive medical examination of his corpse).
2) Brande isn't really dead. A hole in the body of a creature with no vital organs is, for the most part, annoying and painful, but rarely could lead to fatality. Brande had been considering going underground, and leaving this 'life' as R.J. Brande behind, and chose this convenient assassination attempt to fake being dead.
Cham knows this, which explains why he looked so surly and annoyed during the reading of his father's 'last will and testament.' It's a sham, and, regardless of his intentions, it feels to Cham like his father is running away again...
Why the Time Trapper, who demonstrates on Leland McCauley the ability to age someone to death, would send someone to *shoot* Brande, remains a mystery, like why the Joker would tie up an unconscious Batman and suspend him over a vat of acid instead of shoot him in the face before he wakes up...
quote: 2) Brainiac 5 makes a point of saying that he alone created Mon-El's anti-lead serum. There seems little point in this statement unless it's meant to retcon away the story where Saturn Girl created the first, temporary, anti-lead serum. However, it doesn't explicitly contradict that since he could mean that he just created the final one.
I suspect that any cool Legion invention that doesn't stem from Brainy (Mon-El's creation of the element that was later used to fashion the Flight Rings, Dreamy's use of Naltorian tech to change Ayla's powers so that she could remain a Legionnaire, and Imra's creation of the first anti-lead-poisoning serum) are going to be retconned into being all-Brainy, all-the-time.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Superboy/LSH #241 has a scene where Chameleon Boy is in disguise and hit by a ray that forces Durlans into their natural form. It's the orange form.
The explanation that Brande chose to revert to orange form doesn't work because Brande is stuck in human form (unless you also want to suggest that he was finally able to shift back when dying, or that he recovered his powers but hid them). Besides, it wasn't widely known that Brande is a Durlan until his death revealed it. If he was just going into hiding he wouldn't intentionally reveal that he's a Durlan.
Why the Trapper didn't age him? Maybe Durlans don't age.
And I'm pretty certain Dreamy's use of Naltorian science will stay, because that single reference is the reason why Dreamy is considered one of the smartest Legionnaires today.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ken Arromdee: Superboy/LSH #241 has a scene where Chameleon Boy is in disguise and hit by a ray that forces Durlans into their natural form. It's the orange form.
Ah, but this is, IIRC, before the green-tentacle form had been established as their 'true form' by Levitz (?) in the first place. It would be unreasonable to expect DC to recall the comics written before that date and 'correct' them.
quote: The explanation that Brande chose to revert to orange form doesn't work because Brande is stuck in human form
I may be talking out of my backside here, but I thought that he later regained his shapeshifting powers? (Not in the issue where Reep does, and then has the cool shapeshifting duel with the other Durlan, because I remember Brande refusing to do so there, but I could've sworn he later regained his powers...)
But yeah, if he had no shapeshifting powers, then his death shouldn't have caused him to change into anything other than a human corpse.
Perhaps the Time Trapper deliberately moved his body through time to cause it to resolve into a shape it had taken much, much earlier, to enhance the earth-as-xenophobes asspull?
Perhaps (no, definitely) we are putting way more thought into this poorly written scene than the writer did.
quote: Why the Trapper didn't age him? Maybe Durlans don't age. [/quopte]
That would make sense. L.E.G.I.O.N. established Brande to be at least 1000 years old.
It's not a retcon, 'though, because nobody ever said he *wasn't* 1000 years old!
Or 10,000 years old. Or the Martian Manhunter. Or a Lord of Order. Or the first Oan/Malthusan. Or Krono's lab partner, who said, 'dude, bad idea...' Or the living embodiment of The Source.
[quote] And I'm pretty certain Dreamy's use of Naltorian science will stay, because that single reference is the reason why Dreamy is considered one of the smartest Legionnaires today.
I'll give you that one, mainly because I don't expect Ayla's time as Light Lass to ever be mentioned again anyway.
But the popularity of Brainy seems likely to snatch away the creation of the Flight Rings and the anti-lead serum.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
LEGION didn't establish Brande to be 1000 years old, since he was pulled through time.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ken Arromdee: LEGION didn't establish Brande to be 1000 years old, since he was pulled through time.
Shows what I know! I haven't read LEGION, although I'd heard that Brande was in it and that Tinya was a Carggite, and various other strange things.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
It was basically a V4 plot, although LEGION started a bit before V4. LEGION had a Durlan in it, and the Durlan was swapped for Phase. (They weren't swapped from exactly the same time periods.)
It was eventually revealed in V4 that the Durlan was Brande and it was strongly implied that Phase was Tinya (who disappeared in the future because of Glorith). Right at Zero Hour it was revealed that Phase was not Tinya, but Tinya's previously unseen sister Enya. Zero Hour then immediately wiped that away.
In the reboot, it was implied that Brande is the Martian Manhunter; the Durlan from LEGION no longer had an explanation. Phase was explained by saying that Tinya's dad was Carggian and that Phase is her second body, stolen at birth. She was merged back into Tinya. The reboot ended before anyone could explain what happened to the third body.
Since the reboot still existed in a separate timeline and its crossovers still existed, I assume that Phase's origin is still in continuity. I don't think anyone's ever tried to explain the Durlan again.
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