quote:Originally posted by Set: Wow, the Legion is going to be 'clarified' by making sure that it's affected by every tie-in and crossover related to the 21st century DCU characters.
It's like Laurel Kent-Manhunter, all over again...
... but worse: there is no Paul Levitz writing it.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by matlock: The multiverse isn't really back. 52 universes have been created (they aren't even the originals.) It's like if your car radio had all the presets already locked in when you bought it and you could never change them, and they took the rest of the nobs off.
Really, why get stuck in 52 or 110? If you add up all the time travelling shenennigans going on on Booster Gold, it really doesn't matter at all.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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posted
After reading the posts here I had pretty much convinced myself that I wasn't going to buy this ish, tough economic times and all that. But I bought the thing just to see what all of the rending of garments was all about. By itself it wasn't that bad of an issue, though the artist probably wouldn't have been a choice I would have made for this book. His style, particularly his people, doesn't seem to fit a futuristic sci-fi book. But maybe over time one could get used to it. The big problem was that the issue didn't deliver what was promised on DC's own website. Forget the last minute change in writer and artist, at least tell the story that you promised that you were going to tell, regardless of who you get to tell it. I could also kind of see a scenerio where maybe the Invader Majestix was Projectra. But you'd need the extra issues to get there. The let down is Mon-El is still in limbo, Cos is still in the future's future, Dream Boy is ?, etc.
Given last twenty or so years of the LSH and now to end the Legion's 50th anniversary like this, DC you really OWE the LSH fans a huge debt. Make it right.
-------------------- So what.
From: Harrisburg, PA | Registered: Apr 2006
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Arm Fall Off Boy
Now starring in his own DC Comic, September 2011!
posted
quote:Originally posted by duck458: The let down is Mon-El is still in limbo, Cos is still in the future's future, Dream Boy is ?, etc.
Given last twenty or so years of the LSH and now to end the Legion's 50th anniversary like this, DC you really OWE the LSH fans a huge debt. Make it right.
Yeah, Duck, that's what we've all been saying. I just want this issue to die and be put out of our misery, but this thread just keeps on going...How about we put 4 more messages on here--that'll get us to 247, then lock it?
-------------------- Long Live all them Legions!
From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Glen Cadigan: . . . so I stand by some of my comments moreso than I do of others.
Any plans on sharing which you're standing by and which you're not?
Let me guess. People weren't quite so 'professional' as you thought?
No, I was right about that. It had nothing to do with one person not liking another person's take on a given series. Again, pros don't get worked up about that stuff - fans do. The conflict was always about publishing concerns, not story content.
I was wrong about who it was that was butting heads, as some of my information was out of date. I have since been updated by the horse's mouth, so my first post was right - up to a point. Then things changed, and it affected the outcome of the series.
quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: From Dan Didio 20 Questions at Newsarama:
So what you’re going to see is how the Legion has ties to our current timeline, and once we establish those ties to the current time, we’ll spring forward to the future and see what the future holds for those characters.
Auugh! How open-ended can you get? Reading between the lines, this sounds like "maybe we'll make another LSH book eventually, if fan reaction is positive".
This was his chance to plug a new LSH book, and he didn't. This means there are no plans...and if/when there are, how long a delay from plan to first issue?
I agree with whoever brought up the 50th anniversary: 50th anniversary, semi-successful cartoon, *very* well-reviewed appearance on "Smallville", and...
hey, great time to have no title book? Indefinitely?
As for clarity: we had the John's Legion in Countdown/Action ... but the Threeboot LSH is STILL affecting things (R.E.B.E.L.S, Brave and Bold) ... seems to me (as I think other have alluded to) that the more such "ties" over the timeline there are, the LESS "clear" the LSH can be.
As for issue #50 - sure, a let-down for a last issue. But let's also face this: had he/they gone through with the original plan, Jeckie fans would have been up in arms, and would have felt betrayed.
I know, as an Element Lad fan, I wish someone had stepped in at the end of "Legion Lost" and changed the Progenitor storyline ... even if doing so would have made for an anti-climactic ending.
So, poor as it may have been, they erred on the side of character preservation, which I appreciate.
Besides, in even the best titles, 15-20% of the issues randomly suck anyway, so this was nothing new.
Nevertheless, I do agree that it was a crime not to take great pains to stay out of that 15-20% bracket on what could turn out to be the last issue for a LONG time, and on the 50th (year) anniversary to "boot" (pun intended ... not just the usual, but also that they are kicking us in the gut.)
-------------------- "I like stuff that doesn't exist."
From: Old Lyme, CT | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Evolution Has Failed: ...seems to me (as I think other have alluded to) that the more such "ties" over the timeline there are, the LESS "clear" the LSH can be.
Agreed. Especially as the GL foundations change every 5-10 years.
quote:...with the original plan, Jeckie fans would have been up in arms, and would have felt betrayed.
I know, as an Element Lad fan, I wish someone had stepped in at the end of "Legion Lost" and changed the Progenitor storyline ... even if doing so would have made for an anti-climactic ending.
So, poor as it may have been, they erred on the side of character preservation, which I appreciate.
I could not disagree more. If the line is drawn at what might affend some fans or even many fans, we will never see an interesting story again. Charatcters we care about beling placed in situations in which they have a genuine risk factor is vital; if every intense danger turns out to be a red herring, we have the lame, watered-down Silver age Kal-El stories.
If that's what we as Legino fans collectively want, (1) we are just as impossible as some others perceive us, and (2) we might as well just readl back issues and write our own fan-fic than to read anything that might offend delicate sensibilities.
I'd rather have seen *some* conclusion to the Jeckie story than none at all, even if Shooter's run wasn't as good as Legion Lost (and one can be a Jan fan without automatically hating it, or wanting TPTB to step in and alter an ending).
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Evolution Has Failed: As for issue #50 - sure, a let-down for a last issue. But let's also face this: had he/they gone through with the original plan, Jeckie fans would have been up in arms, and would have felt betrayed.
I know, as an Element Lad fan, I wish someone had stepped in at the end of "Legion Lost" and changed the Progenitor storyline ... even if doing so would have made for an anti-climactic ending.
I'll accept a *good* story where a character dies. The death of Phoenix had meaning, and so I was fine with it. Her subsequent lives and deaths have not had any real narrative meaning, and have served to cheapen the original story.
The problem here is that Projectra got saved in LSH 50, only to likely have her entire universe cease to exist by the end of Lo3W anyway (and quite possibly being punched through the chest / cut in half by heat vision / etc. by Prime anyway, along with 50 other random Legionnaires who don't 'make the cut' into Dan Didio's 'less confusing Legion of 1 World').
I would rather have seen the Threeboot Projectra, who is a *vastly* different character than Snakejectra or Sensor, die at the end of what has essentially been a 50 issue story arc about the death of her world and it's effects on her, than have her be decapitated in a flyby attack by Prime at the bottom right-hand panel of page 16 of Lo3W #5 along with Gear, yet another Triplicate Girl (the gift that keeps on giving to an editorial mandate to kill a bunch of people, since they can kill her over and over) and Invisible Jacques.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I agree with you both. The death of Phoenix had tremendous meaning, as did the death of Barry Allen. I loved both of these characters dearly, but they had purpose and were well done. The years spent developing Wally as a character, as a "Replacement" Flash, who himself did not feel worthy to wear the shoes of his mentor were very well done overall (hey, everybody who runs will stumble from time to time). I remember previous writers and editors at DC comics swearing Barry Allen would never been resurrected (he may appear in time travel stories or an "untold adventure"... he was the closest thing DC had to a saint. I don't need Barry to be back again full time...even though I'll definitely be buying the book. I feel like such a hypocrite. But it looks to have both a great story and beautiful artwork.
Even drawing from the Legion's history:
Ferro Lad dying against the Sun Eater. It would cheapen his story to have him come back now.
And when Garth died at the end of Legion Lost, I should have screamed for DnA's heads (Lightning Lad has always been my favorite superhero), but I didn't because it was so well done. How his sacrifice got the team home, and reminded them all that they were never "lost" to begin with... Well done. But hey, he's back now too. I was torn to see him return, as it cheapened what I thought was an incredible ending.
As far as I'm concerned, issue #50 was an editorial copout. We deserved to see the story through to it's completion. Even if Jim was going to have Jeckie kill Sun Boy for working with Terra Firma only to have Sun Boy appear in Lo3W and get frozen and smashed by Prime anyway...no big deal. Orion died twice between Death of the New Gods mini and Final Crisis...I can overlook that kind of thing from time to time...
From a Legion death standpoint, I also think we've seen enough Karate Kids and Triplicate Girls die too. Let's move on.
Death should not be a revolving door in comic books. It takes no talent to bring the character back from the dead. Does anyone here believe Bruce Wayne is gone for good? Steve Rogers? Anyone? I didn't think so.
-------------------- Craig C.
- Time travel stories are told in chronillogical order.
From: Santa Ana, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: But since the multiverse is back and there are other versions of many other DC characters, I don't see why there needs to be one "iconic" version of the Legion anyway. Just pick one and feature it. The other versions could show up occasionally as guest stars, like when the JSA and JLA team up periodically.
Oh and Jim, you get my vote to replace DiDio at DC. This more than makes sense. I guess it can't possibly happen since it follows such a beatifully simplistic logic. Sigh...
-------------------- Craig C.
- Time travel stories are told in chronillogical order.
From: Santa Ana, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I'd ditto jim, craig and set...
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Omni Craig: I remember previous writers and editors at DC comics swearing Barry Allen would never been resurrected
I feel the same way about Hal Jordan. I grew up watching the Superfriends and reading about a Justice League that had both Barry and Hal as the Flash and Green Lantern, but they changed and grew and died. I accepted Wally and Kyle as their heirs and replacements, and now those characters have been shuffled off to the side for the return of their dead predecessors, both of whom, IMO, haven't been used well enough to justify their returns.
quote: Death should not be a revolving door in comic books. It takes no talent to bring the character back from the dead. Does anyone here believe Bruce Wayne is gone for good? Steve Rogers? Anyone? I didn't think so.
So true. And yet, comic book writers don't see characters as characters, allowed to change, grow and eventually die, they see them as franchises. Professor Xavier appears in a wheelchair, so he's confined to that wheelchair forever. He gets a new clone body that can walk? Somebody breaks his back, putting him back in the chair. He gets repaired by alien technology? Something damages his nervous system and it's back in the saddle again. Spider-Man isn't allowed to change his 'iconic' costume for long, neither is Superman. Every couple of years, somebody comes along and mashes the big reset button and everybody transforms back to the way they were. Cyclops learns to control his optic blasts (thanks to Emma doing what Professor X could have done at any time in the last dozen years, as easily as he teaches people to speak Shiar in 12 seconds flat) in Astonishing X-Men. It mysteriously wears off, despite the woman who 'cured' him standing right in front of him and being able to do it again as effortlessly as she did it the first time.
And now it's happening to the Legion again. Garth and Imra are apparently no longer Validus' parents (and possibly not even parents at all!). Wildfire is back in his containment suit, having apparently forgotten how Quislet taught him how to manifest a humanoid energy-form. Karate Kid is alive again. No wait, he's dead again. Again. Again.
The editorial *fear* of changing anything is mighty annoying, and it's pure marketing. Kal-El might be as likely to change his clothing, mannerisms or speech patterns as any other sentient being. But Superman (TM) isn't allowed to do anything that might 'damage his branding.'
And, like the Flash (now with Classic Barry Allen flavor!) and Green Lantern (retro Hal Jordan ftw!), I feel that the marketing demands damage the 'brands' far more than organic change would.
Registered: Aug 2006
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