posted
I just read the latest TPB of The Walking Dead (which goes up to issue #72) and though I am still enjoying this series, reading through this thread I realise that I have completely different views to almost all of you. Especially on who are and who aren't favourite characters. But oh well - I'm used to beating my own path when it comes to my comics interests.
Anyway, exhibit A (and I know I've already mentioned this before in an earlier post) - Michonne. A bunch of people here say she's their favourite character. She's a total cypher to me. What do people like about this character? That she's tough and carries a sword? If she's done anything else in the entire time she's been in this book, or received any sort of character development that made people like her, I must have missed it. She's so very Wolverine-ish IMO. And I've never liked him (or that stock character-type) either.
I will say though, that that double page spread of her hanging her sword on the wall and receiving that flashback of all the horrible things she (or others) have done with it in the last issue of the TPB was quite affecting, and probably the first time I've ever felt anything for her character - not surprising when it's also the first time Kirkman has given her more than one dimension.
And she's not the only one I seem to differ with the prevailing opinion in this thread on...
Carl - have hated him since the first storyline. Want him dead and gone from this book more than any of the others. Rick - has there ever been a more unlikeable and self-important leading character in comics? (Though I will concede that Kirkman has done a lot of great work with this character and his moral culpability and his stealth-tyrannical 'leadership' of this group is what gives the book its edge). Still want him gone though.
Those are the main ones.
I also find some of the writing to be quite dubious at times. I noticed people upthread talking about that tale about the druggie father who removed his son's eyeballs that Douglas told Rick in one of the issues.
The moral of that story (as expressed to us by Kirkman through Douglas) is that evil exists in the world and the we have to be on the guard for it. And he uses the example of a man fried on hallucinogens accidentally popping out his son's eyeballs to demonstrate that fact?!?
If the man had done that just for kicks then, yes - I can see where Kirkman/Douglas is coming from (I personally don't believe there is such a thing as "evil" - not the way it is defined by the sensationalistic, blood-baiting media - in the world anyway) but a guy out of his mind on strong hallucinogenic drugs, though still culpable and destructive and guilty, is definitely not what I would call "evil". The whole muddled point of that story, which took up like two whole pages of that issue, really soured that scene for me.
Anyway, all that said, I still love this book (for the most part) and think Kirkman is a fantastic writer (for the most part) and long may it and he last.
Really looking forward to the show too.
P.S. I won't be back in this thread until the next TPB is out for fear of spoilers so if anyone responds to this post and I don't reply, don't think I'm ignoring you.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
You have some valid points about Michonne, though I disagree. I mean, she is definitely enigmatic, but that's part of her charm. I think many of us who are fans of her were hooked from the moment she first appeared with two jawless zombies in tow and a badass samarai sword. I mean, that's one of the best first looks at a character EVER!
She does have some depth. It's just not as in your face as the others. I remember her interaction with Rick when he was getting "the phone calls from Lori". I remember her breaking down after exacting revenge on the Governor. I see how she shacks up with Tyreese and, later, Duane and read between the lines that her strength belies a terrible loneliness. I revelled at how shockingly mundane she revealed her life to be pre-apocalypse. I like how she's slowly developed a bond with Rick since the prison.
It's not a lot, but it's enough for me. If every character was completely straightforward, I think my interest in this book wouldn't be so high. That said, I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like Michonne compared to, say, Andrea. Michonne only gives you small doses of character over long periods of time, and that can be frustrating.
Carl is interesting because he's the main kid in the crew, and he's survived this long both on his own accord and with some help. He's done as many questionable things as any of the rest of our cast. And we worry about how it's going to affect him most of all. How can you still be a kid and have already killed at least two people, including another kid? At the same time he's still cute as heck in the cowboy hat! Those of us who like Carl root for him and somehow hope he can overcome the horror of what he's living and especially what he's done.
Rick? Well, being the leading man among a large cast is naturally gonna cause division in the fanbase. See Jack Shepherd, Cosmic Boy, etc. But I know he's written that way on purpose. He's evolved more than anyone else in the series, and that will rub some the right and wrong ways. Me, I enjoy being continually surprised by Rick and can't imagine the series without him most of all.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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Blacula, I think she's been given more depth than you are giving her credit for... I mean how much depth are ANY of these characters other than Rick really given-- Michonne is pretty high up the list I think, and yes it doesn't hurt for me that she is a total badass. Oh, and YEAH, that frist appearance? There's never been a better one in ANY comic, maybe...
As I stated previously, I was one ready for Rick to beggone from the book at issue 50... nowadays, not so much. Not because he's likeable-- in fact, his recent actions have been VERY questionable-- but because he is interesting.
Carl... I've been on the fence with him since he shot the little killer (trying to stay as spoiler-free as possible for TPBers)... that was NOT his call to make... I think he might be the most effed up character of all of them really...
I'm curious as to which characters draw you in Blacula?
posted
Part of the great thing about The Walking Dead is it's mostly rotating cast. Characters stick around, some a lit longer than others, but others come and go.
There are reasons I could cite to like/dislike pretty much all of the characters. Very few characters are given only one layer if they are around for more than a couple issues. They may not get full fledged character arcs, but most go through some kind of moral delimma at some point.
Plenty of characters to like and dislike. The longer someone is around, the more chance there is for them to do something, that we as people that have no way of knowing how we'd really react in thier kind of reality, would find too hard to fully comprehend.
I think that's the point for Kirkman, taking perfectly normal, boring people and trying to figure out how we'd react in the most horrific of situations.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Michonne is also a favorite of mine and for many of the reasons the people above state. Naturally, her incredible entrance and consistent badass visual have kept her visually appealing to me, but I also think there is an incredible amount of subtle character depth to her. On the one hand, she is one of the most traumatized and changed people in the whole cast, so damaged in fact that I almost feel (and hate myself for saying so) that she is beyond repair. Yet, because of those traumas, I also feel she is one of the most effective (if not the most) of the entire cast in dealing with this zombie apocaplytic world.
Something I also find appealing is her gradual friendship with Rick. There is no sexual chemistry there, and so it is really nice to see a male/female friendship that is so strong and based on mutual respect and also knowledge that the other is screwed up. This is pretty rare in all of pop-culture. It is a brother/sister dynamic but without one being the 'elder sibling'. I find it refreshing, and relatable. This is also why the latest issue something happens between Michonne and Rick where I'm now worried about their friendship and it's affected me a lot more than many other 'serious' things in the series.
Rick is one of my favorites and part of that is because he is a multi-layered, flawed human being. Now that he has survived #48-50 and beyond, I don't want him to ever die (by that I mean it would break my heart--the fact that anyone could die is a huge plus for this comic). Like Lardy says, Rick suffers from the same thing Cos & Jack from Lost have in that they are the leading man and thus can get tiresome to some readers, or at least their decisions are more central to changing other people's lives. I know people who love the Harry Potter books but dislike Harry Potter himself (which I find amusing but a bit 'off'). I can relate to Rick, I can empathize with him but more than anything, I find him so damn interesting.
I used to not like Carl so much but that all changed once he crossed the line in a big way. Now it's not so much that I like/dislike him, I just find his very presence to be intriguing and scary. Scary in two ways: how will this world continue to change Carl, and what might Carl do next? Can you imagine if Carl crosses a line again and Rick has to come to terms with it? Maybe make a huge decision where the outcome is awful no matter how you cut it? That's scary.
Dale was a favorite of mine for a long time but then for several issues I started to feel otherwise and get annoyed with him. And then of course, he reminded me why I loved him in the first place and (without spoiling anything), his scene with Rick at the close of the "Hunters" storyline I found to be incredibly moving.
Andrea and Glenn, my other two favorites are much more likeable, but still interesting. I'm rooting for an Andrea/Rick romance now.
What's funny is I have so much invested in a lot of these characters now that when a new character joins the cast, it takes me--no kidding--like 15 issues before I commit to liking them. And Kirkman excels at that: if they're boring he throws in a scene that gets your blood going (see: the Priest). Or he starts off making them unlikeable and then shows another side to them so you start to really like them (see: Abraham). So far not one single character from the Community has made me like them yet, so if Michonne has to cut all their heads off, I can only say: "awesome".
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Abraham has definitely emerged as a favorite among the (comparatively) new characters. I liked how the guy he deposed as leader of the construction crew acknowledged his admiration of Abraham and his bravery to the creepy leader guy (sorry, not learning the new names well, so far) in issue 74. It could've turned into a boring cock fight between the two, so that was a refreshing development. It was believable to me that he would concede under those circumstance as he would be relieved to unload the burden of leading after losing others and nearly losing the girl.
Abraham, I think, is filling the Tyreese void somewhat as we get to know him better. He's the guy who Rick is kind of buddies with and who is about as fierce a fighter as Tyreese was. At the same time Abraham's not a carbon-copy of Tyreese. (This is, of course, beyond the difference in race.) I still miss Tyreese a LOT, but Abraham is emerging as someone that can help me miss some of what Tyreese represented while offering his own new wrinkles. I can also see Abraham emerging as the leading man should Kirkman ever decide to do the unthinkable with Rick.
74 (which I just read last night) also had a great scene between Rick and Michonne which served to support our points, I think, very well as we counterpoint some of Blacula's criticisms. I loved how Michonne talked about the sword being on the mantle and what that symbolizes to her and how Rick completely understood. She also brought up the phone calls, and his lack of response was interesting and open for a couple of interpretations.
That near-slip that Rick made with Andrea about what Carl did was great and served to remind us of what a potential bomb this may still turn out to be. I'm a little surprised she didn't put two and two together just based on what he said, actually. I wonder what she'll DO when she finds out?
So far I really don't have a good sense as to how many new characters populate the community, and especially their names. I'm sure Kirkman wants to leave room for introducing as varied a group of chracters as he can in this less limited setting, but a pictorial scorecard would be nice of all those we've met so far. It's not Adlard's art that's the problem; it's just the sheer number of characters. Heck, I'm still having trouble remembering Abraham's girlfriend's name and the geeky science guy's name. The priest is Gabriel, right?
Anyhoo, I'm not up to 75 yet, but I look forward to it. Still don't even OWN it yet because the CBS was shorted 2 weeks ago and was sent TWD trades instead of the missing 75s last week!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
By the way, these last few posts have gotten me on a TWD bender out of the blue, so I've started rereading from the beginning and have already gotten thru the first three trades!
For the record they hold up AWESOMELY well!!!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
^Yeah! It's great seeing certain characters again for the first time in a long while as well as having one's memory refreshed as to the circumstances of their departures. Lots of fine details forgotten, definitely! In those early volumes Kirkman killed characters at quite a fast clip! He's definitely slowed down on that a good bit the last couple of years. I guess after the prison finale, that's about all he could do! I'm not complainin'!
But moreover, it's just a damn fine read. In fact more and more, the upcoming series on AMC looks to be quite faithful. I'd forgotten completely, for example, that Rick was on horseback for a short time as he entered Atlanta. I thought that was fabricated for the show, but it really happened!
Anyhow, I'm more stoked than ever about the series and figure I'll read at least thru all the eight trades I own (taking me to the end of the prison era) if not into where I started buying the singles (issue 49-up). Good chance I'll go all the way!
Now on to Volume Four.....
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I said I wouldn't be back in this thread until the next TPB came out but of course my ego demanded that I return and see if anyone had responded to my post!
I'll be back later with more thoughts/answers to some of the things you raised in your posts...
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
My new Uni semester has started with a bang so I don't have time to go into too much detail in this thread unfortunately but to answer a few quick questions -
Michonne - If she were in a DCU book I'm sure I'd like her (in fact, now that I think about it - she reminds me a bit of the Green Arrow/Batman supporting character Onyx, whom I love) but in this one she seems to me totally at odds with Kirkman's naturalistic 'real-world people reacting as they really would to this totally unreal event'. Because into that he's thrown in this Quentin Tarantino-esque bad mama with a bitchin' samurai sword that she weilds like a pro. Has anyone here ever tried to learn how to use a sword? I have - it's not easy. Everything about her screams 'comic book character' to me whereas all the others (whether I like them or not) at least appear more 'real'.
Rick - I was probably a bit hasty to say I'd be glad to see him gone from this book because, like him or hate him, Kirkman has actually done an extraordinary job of bringing him to life and making him a very interesting character. He's probably one of the best shades-of-grey characters in comics actually and despite myself I do love reading about him and being surprised by his actions.
Carl - I just don't like. I'm not invested in his story or tragedy or whatever and think he has skated by avoiding the proper consquences of his actions (from the other characters I mean - Kirkman has at least shown that he's becoming more f***ed up mentally after them) after killing Shane and then Billy. More than any of the others (even Rick) he seems like Kirkman's touchstone character though, so I worry he's in it for the long haul. I don't tend to like the 'cute kid' character in any medium though so take that for what you will. (That said, I do like Sophia and liked Ben and Billy so maybe there's just something about Carl that annoys me?)
To answer MLLASH's question - I'm definitely in this book more for the story and the writing than the characters. Some characters I've liked more than others but through a combination of being annoyed by Kirkman's handling of them and knowing that most of them won't be around for more than a few arcs anyway I've learned not to get too emotionally attached to any of them.
That said, some characters I like/have liked - Shane, Allen, Tyreese (for the most part), Andrea, Glen, Maggie's brother (but not Maggie herself), Morgan, that biker guy in the prison (Diesel?), that curly-haired lady who died in the prison arc... a few others.
Re: the show - I wonder if it will affect how Kirkman writes/plots out certain characters. Like - if, say, Maggie becomes a break-out character on the show will she suddenly start appearing in the book more or avoid a death he had planned for her? Or will any of the other actors bring something to their characters that he decides to incorporate into the book, either good or bad? It will be interesting to see.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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